Who will be next Labour leader?

[sandGroundZero]

Toodles McGinty's post #31:

"I'm curious. Why do you think the largest party in the country, previously the largest party in the EU, will cease to exist?
"I'm wondering, as Starmer was voted in pretty much from all different factions of the party. From Momentum to those considered 'Blairites'. I'm not sure how PR will break it up."

It is all ultimately attributable to the first past the post voting system!
Mark my words. Proportional representation will bring about the end of Labour (certainly, 'as we have known it').

[The PNP]

Boris was hoping to skip the negotiations and go no deal claiming no progress had been made at the end of June but nobody will wear that now he will have to extend.

A strategy which appears to come down to cynically relying on the Covid outbreak, as a convenient smokescreen for lack of progress. Pushing the deadline back will, yet again, be dependent on the EU's continuing goodwill....The whole Brexit exercise has become a glorified farce, from start to finish!

[Hamble]

Pro Palestine does not equal anti Semitic.

?
Pro Hamas is pro terrorist.

In the UK antisemitism is antisemitism whether pro Palestinian or not.
Pro terrorist is never 'freedom fighting'.

[The PNP]

?
Pro Hamas is pro terrorist....In the UK antisemitism is antisemitism whether pro Palestinian or not. Pro terrorist is never 'freedom fighting'.

It has become an impossible conundrum. Making it next to impossible to speak up for Palestinians and/or engage with their elected government, without being tagged antisemitic.

[said]

I'm curious. Why do you think the largest party in the country, previously the largest party in the EU, will cease to exist?

I'm wondering, as Starmer was voted in pretty much from all different factions of the party. From Momentum to those considered 'Blairites'. I'm not sure how PR will break it up.

For the same reason The Roman Empire fell. Times change, ideas, technology, marketing - everything changes! If leaders fail to recognise change - they are lost! We move forward!

[Hamble]

It has become an impossible conundrum. Making it next to impossible to speak up for Palestinians and/or engage with their elected government, without being tagged antisemitic.

I have absolutely no trouble in sticking up for Asian's without being racist.
Get a grip man read the rules!

[Toodles McGinty]

Toodles McGinty's post #31:

"I'm curious. Why do you think the largest party in the country, previously the largest party in the EU, will cease to exist?
"I'm wondering, as Starmer was voted in pretty much from all different factions of the party. From Momentum to those considered 'Blairites'. I'm not sure how PR will break it up."

It is all ultimately attributable to the first past the post voting system!
Mark my words. Proportional representation will bring about the end of Labour (certainly, 'as we have known it').

I understand why FPTP has contributed to a minority of votes winning a majority of seats, but not how PR in any of its variations can break up an entire political party.

I'll take your word for it, it's as valid an opinion as any other. But I'm missing something here.

[Hamble]

Has anybody bailed out of the opposition party yet?

Could be an entertaining few days.

[said]

It has become an impossible conundrum. Making it next to impossible to speak up for Palestinians and/or engage with their elected government, without being tagged antisemitic.

It is written in History, that hundreds of years ago - there were just a few farmers in the area now known as Israel. Ancient traders recognised the potential for profitable trade from these farmers and began building up a good economy for the region. The traders settled in Israel and with the farmers had a good comfortable life. The surrounding areas of Syria, Egypt etc., were experiencing a downturn in trade and when they saw that Israel was successful, they moved into the region in large numbers, and expelled the traders. The economy began reducing, while the traders grew in number and fought their way back into the country that they had made their own. This activity was repeated several times over history - until the trader's numbers had increased sufficiently to hold on to their country. The traders are those we refer to as the Jewish people - the infiltrators are those known now as the Palestinians. Because of several conflicts over the years - the British divided the country giving the Palestinians an area of their own just after the last World War - but the numbers of the Palestinian's has now increased and the land area is insufficient for their numbers. Israel comprises of 22, 145 km squared for 9 million people, Palestine has 6220 km squared for 5 million people.

So what would you consider would be a good compromise? Would you agree in a hypothetical situation where Muslims numbered far more in the future than they do at present,but still only half the number of the British people, that the Muslims with their completely different way of life and beliefs, should be given far more British land to build their mosques and houses on, because their numbers are increasing faster?

[said]

Has anybody bailed out of the opposition party yet?

Could be an entertaining few days.

Mmmmmh! Watch this space - type of thing!

[sandGroundZero]

"Labour has only ever been an ill-assorted coalition of disparate factions."

With the centripetal effect of FPTP Labour's factions (mostly) barely avoid break-up. Do away with FPTP, and there is no longer any benefit in sustaining all that internal friction.

FPTP has largely failed to keep Labour and the LibDems singing from the same hymn sheet; much to the chagrin of self-described 'progressive' Guardian commentators you'll be acquainted with.

If it's any consolation to you, the other parties will also succumb to centrifugal forces. [But, perhaps less; and the outcome is multi-party negotiations behind the scenes.]

Also if you hadn't detected already, I am not greatly impressed by our institutions' claims to democratic legitimacy. Our system is minimally democratic inasmuch as we have elections periodically and more-or-less universal suffrage. But, the legacy is undemocratic; and the institutions have evolved to contain democracy, as opposed to promoting it.

[Toodles McGinty]

Has anybody bailed out of the opposition party yet?

Could be an entertaining few days.

Why would anyone leave because Starmer has been elected? I suppose a few far lefties might skulk off to the Socialist Worker Party. Bit like a few Tories bailing to Farage. That's not a loss though.

Frankly if they were staying for Long Bailey, they can take their student politics elsewhere until they've matured.

If anything, a few TIGgers might return to the fold. A few centrists. Can't see a huge difference being made either way.

How is a barrister, a DPP, a head of the CPS, with a sharp mind and eminently qualified to hold the government's feet to the fire*. going to drive anyone out of the Labour party?

*Polly Toynbee

[sandGroundZero]

Referring to Toodles McGinty's post #43, you should take care: "I suppose a few far lefties might skulk off …" — sounds a bit like your foil local!

"Frankly if they were staying for Long Bailey, they can take their student politics elsewhere until they've matured."

You and Polly Toynbee delude yourselves. Things are rarely that clear-cut.

[local]

Good old Keir straight in with the whining about the medical response to the Virus in the Times.

Does he really think Boris, Matt Hancock and co are not completely in the hands of the medics

When will he learn ?

he is apparently setting four tests, doesn't seem that long ago his last set of tests were the subject of ridicule.


Whats Jeremy doing ?

[Toodles McGinty]

Referring to Toodles McGinty's post #43, you should take care: "I suppose a few far lefties might skulk off …" — sounds a bit like your foil local!

"Frankly if they were staying for Long Bailey, they can take their student politics elsewhere until they've matured."

You and Polly Toynbee delude yourselves. Things are rarely that clear-cut.

Well, that's one opinion. I can only go off personal opinions of the members I know.

And yes, things rarely are clear cut.

If there is one thing that can be guaranteed, though, is that various factions (and you're correct, Labour has many factions), will bicker. Always have.

In the Blair years, there were disgruntled noises from the traditional left. We all know about Momentum and the centrists during Corbyn's reign. Now the likes of Margaret Hodge, say, are delighted as, in her words, the 'Corbyn experiment' is over and Jewish Labour members can return to the fold.

Having said that, the Tories suffered similarly last summer. With many Tories coming up against Johnson and the ERG, leaving them with a negative majority. Traditional one-nation Tories such as Clarke, Soames etc either walking or pushed.

Highly entertaining from the outside, but possibly not the best for the country. What is best for the country, however, is an effective opposition. Not in terms of seats, obviously, but in terms of scrutiny. Particularly when we have a PM that literally runs away from scrutiny (and hides in fridges).