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  1. #76
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    "…I grew up in a village, public transport best described as occasional, for some time I was restricted to jobs I could get to by bike, 1963 passed my test, got a car and was able to travel to a better job with better prospects and pay, …" — post #77

    By 1963, policies encouraging motor vehicle ownership were well under way. Admittedly if you'd lived in a small somewhat remote (in terms of transportation options) community, mobility offered by a motor vehicle was a boon. Nevertheless, in the future other options will be available. Communications technology has changed; transportation options are changing (— so much so that it is difficult to guess what the near-future may bring).

    The social changes in my grandfather's life time (1890s-1960s) require some imagination to contemplate. [It was amusing listening to my grandfather for the changes he saw as impressive.] In many respects, some of those changes are reversing and probably many should reverse. In any case lifestyles will change willy-nilly, if we do not devise ways to deal with GHG emissions.

    Conflating the consequences of short-term disruptions (e.g. the ebb & flow of high street business fortunes) here in Southport with longer-term trends (communications and other technologies, and the threat of sea level rise) does not lend itself to devising appropriate solutions. In the short run, town centre business are struggling, generally. Irate pronouncements about badly behaved cyclists are one thing; gradual changes in the towns infrastructure, quite another.





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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    "…I grew up in a village, public transport best described as occasional, for some time I was restricted to jobs I could get to by bike, 1963 passed my test, got a car and was able to travel to a better job with better prospects and pay, …" — post #77

    By 1963, policies encouraging motor vehicle ownership were well under way. Admittedly if you'd lived in a small somewhat remote (in terms of transportation options) community, mobility offered by a motor vehicle was a boon. Nevertheless, in the future other options will be available. Communications technology has changed; transportation options are changing (— so much so that it is difficult to guess what the near-future may bring).

    The social changes in my grandfather's life time (1890s-1960s) require some imagination to contemplate. [It was amusing listening to my grandfather for the changes he saw as impressive.] In many respects, some of those changes are reversing and probably many should reverse. In any case lifestyles will change willy-nilly, if we do not devise ways to deal with GHG emissions.

    Conflating the consequences of short-term disruptions (e.g. the ebb & flow of high street business fortunes) here in Southport with longer-term trends (communications and other technologies, and the threat of sea level rise) does not lend itself to devising appropriate solutions. In the short run, town centre business are struggling, generally. Irate pronouncements about badly behaved cyclists are one thing; gradual changes in the towns infrastructure, quite another.
    Of course many things change, there are most certainly more people working from home than would have been thought possible not very long ago.

    However there will always a lot of jobs which simply can't be done from home, even for those who can mainly work from home there are
    new problems, particularly when it comes to supervision and any training required.

  4. #78
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    "Of course many things change, there are most certainly more people working from home than would have been thought possible not very long ago. | However there will always a lot of jobs which simply can't be done from home, even for those who can mainly work from home there are new problems, particularly when it comes to supervision and any training required." — post #79

    I trust you realize that working from home was only one important, but not preeminent or exclusive feature of our prospective future. It is the changes that we adopt, encourage or resist that will shape Southport in the years to come. In the context of this thread, Emergency Active Travel Routes are an experiment, or a test case for what may or may not prove useful.

    I have no doubt that there are many residents who would use bicycles, if they felt safe. They do not. Whatever transportation solutions come to be, it is pretty clear that large, heavy, internal combustion powered vehicles are rapidly becoming passé.

    We can agree that many people cannot rely upon bicycles and that there are many miscreants on two (& four) wheels. Also, many households cannot afford the luxury of exclusive use of a motor vehicle.

    I propose we not muddy the waters by asserting that cycle lanes are 'the last straw ' for struggling business proprietors, or some of the other nonsense that has been posted in numerous Q Local threads over recent weeks in connection with cycle lanes.


    .

  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandGroundZero View Post
    "Of course many things change, there are most certainly more people working from home than would have been thought possible not very long ago. | However there will always a lot of jobs which simply can't be done from home, even for those who can mainly work from home there are new problems, particularly when it comes to supervision and any training required." — post #79

    I trust you realize that working from home was only one important, but not preeminent or exclusive feature of our prospective future. It is the changes that we adopt, encourage or resist that will shape Southport in the years to come. In the context of this thread, Emergency Active Travel Routes are an experiment, or a test case for what may or may not prove useful.

    I have no doubt that there are many residents who would use bicycles, if they felt safe. They do not. Whatever transportation solutions come to be, it is pretty clear that large, heavy, internal combustion powered vehicles are rapidly becoming passé.

    We can agree that many people cannot rely upon bicycles and that there are many miscreants on two (& four) wheels. Also, many households cannot afford the luxury of exclusive use of a motor vehicle.

    I propose we not muddy the waters by asserting that cycle lanes are 'the last straw ' for struggling business proprietors, or some of the other nonsense that has been posted in numerous Q Local threads over recent weeks in connection with cycle lanes.


    .
    Never said cycle lanes were the last straw, said they were unhelpful and detrimental, today the only cyclists I saw were the idiot previously described and a young woman cycling through the Railway Station concourse, at a fair speed at that, not one cyclist sullied the vacant cycle lanes, sure I didn't spend time observing, but it isn't a good average.

    I get more than an impression that cyclists want access all areas at any time and everyone else can get out of the way.

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  7. #80
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    "Never said cycle lanes were the last straw, said they were unhelpful and detrimental, today the only cyclists I saw were the idiot previously described and a young woman cycling through the Railway Station concourse, at a fair speed at that, not one cyclist sullied the vacant cycle lanes, sure I didn't spend time observing, but it isn't a good average. | I get more than an impression that cyclists want access all areas at any time and everyone else can get out of the way." — post #81
    1. There are cyclists ignoring the rules and common courtesy just as there are motor vehicle operators doing so.
    2. Insofar as the routes give a small measure of confidence to cyclists who would already have been cycling to or through the central part of town, they are helpful.
    3. Still, the road traffic throughout the town deters people who would otherwise happily cycle.
    Very many comments since the Emergency Active Travel Routes have been installed (I do not single out your remarks, silver fox) suggest resentment at cyclists. Improbable adverse consequences (of the cycle lanes) are mooted — it will deter out of town visitors /businesses will close.
    I view the policy as an attempt to develop amenities for the future benefit of residents and business proprietors, alike. It is unfortunate that resentment fuels much of the response.

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  9. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    I get more than an impression that cyclists want access all areas at any time and everyone else can get out of the way.
    Oddly enough, I get precisely the same impression - but from the motoring fraternity!
    On Yer Bike!

    www.20splentyforus.co.uk

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  11. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    Oddly enough, I get precisely the same impression - but from the motoring fraternity!
    Never seen nor heard of anyone driving through the station concourse.

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  13. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    Never seen nor heard of anyone driving through the station concourse.
    No, nor driving on the pavement past red traffic lights thinking somehow this mitigates the need to stop and wait.

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  15. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    Never seen nor heard of anyone driving through the station concourse.
    Well, they certainly have through the Botanic Gardens.
    On Yer Bike!

    www.20splentyforus.co.uk

  16. #85
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    Haven't seen anyone on the cycle lanes today, it seems we're having a pointless theoretical discussion about their use.

    We might as well discuss fairy lanes or mermaid pools.

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  18. #86
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    Enough said....Get rid of the cycle lanes..


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-uprising.html...

  19. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveandLois View Post
    Enough said....Get rid of the cycle lanes..


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-uprising.html...
    There is a cyclist on the lane though.

    We could have picked him up in a chauffeur-driven limousine, saved a fortune and helped the environment.

    Anyone got his number ?

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  21. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveandLois View Post
    Enough said....Get rid of the cycle lanes..


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-uprising.html...
    If all drivers had showed due consideration for riders, e.g. by always leaving at least 1.5m clearance when passing - there would be never have been a need for cycle lanes in the first place.....Drivers, with their inconsiderate behaviour, have only themselves to blame!
    On Yer Bike!

    www.20splentyforus.co.uk

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  23. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by The PNP View Post
    If all drivers had showed due consideration for riders, e.g. by always leaving at least 1.5m clearance when passing - there would be never have been a need for cycle lanes in the first place.....Drivers, with their inconsiderate behaviour, have only themselves to blame!


    As you know there are many roads where that is impossible the carriageway isn't wide enough for vehicles to leave that much room.

    Why do you not think before you post ?

  24. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    As you know there are many roads where that is impossible the carriageway isn't wide enough for vehicles to leave that much room.

    Why do you not think before you post ?
    Many roads? Name a couple.

    Only roads I can think of where that would be the case, are single-track moss roads with passing places....When I encounter a bunch of riders in that situation, I treat them as 'a vehicle' and pull in for the guys.
    On Yer Bike!

    www.20splentyforus.co.uk

  25. Dislikes SteveandLois disliked this post
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