Southport Groves & bridges

[gsgsgs]

Walking home from town earlier I was taking various routes out of curiosity.

There are several Groves on my route around the railway & bridges, some have steps down to the Grove some don't, any rhyme or reason as to which?

[TownieChap]

Walking home from town earlier I was taking various routes out of curiosity.

There are several Groves on my route around the railway & bridges, some have steps down to the Grove some don't, any rhyme or reason as to which?

First of all, it's great to know I am not the only person who wanders off in curiosity. I fear that when i get old my sense of curiosity and tendency to wander about will not have left me and will make some people think i'm no longer of sound mind and they'll put in a home! .

As for steps that go down into a grove, maybe they are for access of the council and/or network rail? I'm not sure. Pass.

[said]

First of all, it's great to know I am not the only person who wanders off in curiosity. I fear that when i get old my sense of curiosity and tendency to wander about will not have left me and will make some people think i'm no longer of sound mind and they'll put in a home! .

As for steps that go down into a grove, maybe they are for access of the council and/or network rail? I'm not sure. Pass.

Several streets in Southport existed before the railways were built, while new roads have been added since. The Southport/Liverpool line was built in 1848, the main Station was where Morrison's Supermarket now stands. It actually would have made more sense in keeping the Station at that location, because then people would have had to walk through the town and would have increased trade. Anyway, the Cheshire Lines was an extension to that service - below is a photograph of the Station at Ainsdale, in the area where the disused Sands Pub stands. The railway line shown is now the Coastal Road. The word Grove means a group of trees - which may have had meaning some years ago.

[gsgsgs]

First of all, it's great to know I am not the only person who wanders off in curiosity. I fear that when i get old my sense of curiosity and tendency to wander about will not have left me and will make some people think i'm no longer of sound mind and they'll put in a home! .

As for steps that go down into a grove, maybe they are for access of the council and/or network rail? I'm not sure. Pass.

no hope for me then, I try to walk most places and never use the same route home as there even if it is further. I enjoy walking and will happily set off with not thought of destination turning left & right as mood takes to see where I end up.

[TownieChap]

Said, where did you get that picture and are their more? You know I like that kind of thing


GS, good for you. I often do the same thing! Keep walking

[Alikado]

I suspect that the pine trees were planted to stabilise the sides of the bridges over the railway and presumably the roads where named later.

[said]

Said, where did you get that picture and are their more? You know I like that kind of thing


GS, good for you. I often do the same thing! Keep walking

There is an action group for Save The Sands Hotel, someone had sent that photo and one other to their web page.

[Little Londoner]

Several streets in Southport existed before the railways were built, while new roads have been added since. The Southport/Liverpool line was built in 1848, the main Station was where Morrison's Supermarket now stands. It actually would have made more sense in keeping the Station at that location, because then people would have had to walk through the town and would have increased trade. Anyway, the Cheshire Lines was an extension to that service - below is a photograph of the Station at Ainsdale, in the area where the disused Sands Pub stands. The railway line shown is now the Coastal Road. The word Grove means a group of trees - which may have had meaning some years ago.

Sorry but the station was between Portland St and Eastbank St the building by the Railway at Portland St crossing was the original booking office. You are talking about the Cheshire Lines which was opened in 1884.

[Snig's foot]

Several streets in Southport existed before the railways were built, while new roads have been added since. The Southport/Liverpool line was built in 1848, the main Station was where Morrison's Supermarket now stands. It actually would have made more sense in keeping the Station at that location, because then people would have had to walk through the town and would have increased trade. Anyway, the Cheshire Lines was an extension to that service - below is a photograph of the Station at Ainsdale, in the area where the disused Sands Pub stands. The railway line shown is now the Coastal Road. The word Grove means a group of trees - which may have had meaning some years ago.

Said, if you don't know what you're talking about it's best to stay silent rather than reveal your ignorance.

[said]

Said, if you don't know what you're talking about it's best to stay silent rather than reveal your ignorance.

I would prefer to be ignorant rather than downright rude, thank you!

What exactly is wrong with what I have written? Instead of making rude personal comments it would be far more constructive for you to argue your point!

[Snig's foot]

I would prefer to be ignorant rather than downright rude, thank you!

What exactly is wrong with what I have written? Instead of making rude personal comments it would be far more constructive for you to argue your point!

My dear Said...it is not rude, it is a piece of friendly advice.
Little Londoner has pointed out that the original station was between Portland Street and Eastbank Street and opened in 1848. I've always understood that the first services were between Crosby and Southport, then you had to make your way to Waterloo to get a train to Liverpool (which was a temporary station before Liverpool Tithebarn Street [later Exchange] was opened). The link between Crosby and Waterloo came a little later (I suspect that the culverting of Warrenhouse Brook caused the delay,but would appreciate any info about this). In Southport the station was extended to Eastbank Street, and then . in 1851, through to a new station at Chapel Street.
The station in Lord Street on the site of Morrisons and the Travelodge is, as Little Londoner states, the Cheshire Lines built station from 1884. This was built as competition to the existing Liverpool-Southport railway owned by the Lancashire and Yorkshire railway.

[said]

My dear Said...it is not rude, it is a piece of friendly advice.
Little Londoner has pointed out that the original station was between Portland Street and Eastbank Street and opened in 1848. I've always understood that the first services were between Crosby and Southport, then you had to make your way to Waterloo to get a train to Liverpool (which was a temporary station before Liverpool Tithebarn Street [later Exchange] was opened). The link between Crosby and Waterloo came a little later (I suspect that the culverting of Warrenhouse Brook caused the delay,but would appreciate any info about this). In Southport the station was extended to Eastbank Street, and then . in 1851, through to a new station at Chapel Street.
The station in Lord Street on the site of Morrisons and the Travelodge is, as Little Londoner states, the Cheshire Lines built station from 1884. This was built as competition to the existing Liverpool-Southport railway owned by the Lancashire and Yorkshire railway.

The topic was on the Groves and Terraces of Southport - not the Railways - but since you have brought it up, I do believe that the Manchester Line was the first service.

https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/u...6-Cheetham.pdf This gives a description of some of the new buildings in Southport around the 1850's, the rest has to be from imagination unless one is able to trace the books referred to.

As you say - the original station stood half a mile from where it now stands, at the point where the old ticket office is:

Southport History: 1809+.........................


The space represents apoetical quotation : " What scenes ! What varied viewsunnumber'd spread around, And here and there, behind the ruggedhills. The broad flat sea."
* Gore's-terrace was arow of houses on the south side of Lord street, next to the Prince ofWales Hotel, now pulled down. Lord Street was originally called'Lords' Street'


Communication withSouthport from Manchester and other Lancashire towns was in thosedays chiefly by means of the Leeds and Liverpool Canal to ScarisbrickBridge, and indeed continued to be so for many years after. But theopening of the railway between Manchester and Liverpool put analternative route at the disposal of the Manchester people : "Since the opening of that stupendous effort of human genius, theLiverpool and Manchester Railway," writes Alsop, "and theManchester people.


" Since theopening of that stupendous effort of human genius, the Liverpool andManchester Railway," writes Alsop, "and the I2O Some oldBooks on Southport consequent facility afforded by that quick andpleasant mode of travelling, many of the Manchester visitors embraceit in preference. Parties may leave Manchester at one or two o'clockin the afternoon, and arrive in Southport between six and seven inthe evening."


Notitiee, being noticesof two local characters, " Old Cockle Dick" (RichardHaughton, who died in 1824, aged ninety-nine), and "Old FiddlerHarry" (Harry Rimmer, who died in 1828, aged eighty-six), withsome more lines on Southport. Whether this issue preceded that withthe tide-table or followed it, I have been unable to ascertain. Thelines on Southport, which are stated to be " not totallydestitute of merit," describe a journey to Scarisbrick Bridge ina canal boat, the approach to the town, and a stay there of somedays. Here is a sample of the style.


Sir George Head, whowrote an interesting description of Southport in his Home Tourthrough the Manufacturing Districts of England ( I835)- A longdescription of the new baths building 1 is given, with the rules andterms of admission. The old Victoria Baths provided a news-room,refreshment-room, and observatory, as well as the means to "immersethe body in water," and Rule 10 reads as follows : " Forthe gratification of persons desirous of seeing the fountains, &c.,in full operation, the baths will be open for exhibition to thepublic every Wednesday afternoon, from two to six o'clock (duringwhich time no bathing can be allowed), on the payment of 6d. for eachperson; and a select band will be in attendance. Visitors, by takinga bath, are entitled to admission to the conservatory and engineroom, where they may take a glass of filtered sea-water free ofcharge." The "observatory" in connection with thebaths seems to have been a very select place indeed, for theregulations inform us that "chairs to sit on the promenade maybe had at the pay-office for one penny each ; and for sitting in theobservatory during high water, or at any other time, at one shillingeach."


The progress of thetown, he further tells us, had been " in a wholesale manner bystreets and not by single dwellings." " Coronation-walk,Nevill-street, Eastbank-street, Londonstreet, Seabank-road,Hill-street, Union-street, Bold-street, Chapel-street,Hoghton-street, Fleetwood-street,1 and the Victoria Promenade andManchester - road are not only formed, but many of them arecompletely built up; and other streets, crescents, and squares areeither planned or suggested."


The eastern end ofHoghton-street between Union-street and Manchester-road was then socalled. It also extended a short distance beyond Manchester-road, thebeginning of what is now Queen's-road.

THE OLD STATION HOUSE

[Snig's foot]

The topic was on the Groves and Terraces of Southport - not the Railways - but since you have brought it up, I do believe that the Manchester Line was the first service.

https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/u...6-Cheetham.pdf This gives a description of some of the new buildings in Southport around the 1850's, the rest has to be from imagination unless one is able to trace the books referred to.

As you say - the original station stood half a mile from where it now stands, at the point where the old ticket office is:

Southport History: 1809+.........................


The space represents apoetical quotation : " What scenes ! What varied viewsunnumber'd spread around, And here and there, behind the ruggedhills. The broad flat sea."
* Gore's-terrace was arow of houses on the south side of Lord street, next to the Prince ofWales Hotel, now pulled down. Lord Street was originally called'Lords' Street'


Communication withSouthport from Manchester and other Lancashire towns was in thosedays chiefly by means of the Leeds and Liverpool Canal to ScarisbrickBridge, and indeed continued to be so for many years after. But theopening of the railway between Manchester and Liverpool put analternative route at the disposal of the Manchester people : "Since the opening of that stupendous effort of human genius, theLiverpool and Manchester Railway," writes Alsop, "and theManchester people.


" Since theopening of that stupendous effort of human genius, the Liverpool andManchester Railway," writes Alsop, "and the I2O Some oldBooks on Southport consequent facility afforded by that quick andpleasant mode of travelling, many of the Manchester visitors embraceit in preference. Parties may leave Manchester at one or two o'clockin the afternoon, and arrive in Southport between six and seven inthe evening."


Notitiee, being noticesof two local characters, " Old Cockle Dick" (RichardHaughton, who died in 1824, aged ninety-nine), and "Old FiddlerHarry" (Harry Rimmer, who died in 1828, aged eighty-six), withsome more lines on Southport. Whether this issue preceded that withthe tide-table or followed it, I have been unable to ascertain. Thelines on Southport, which are stated to be " not totallydestitute of merit," describe a journey to Scarisbrick Bridge ina canal boat, the approach to the town, and a stay there of somedays. Here is a sample of the style.


Sir George Head, whowrote an interesting description of Southport in his Home Tourthrough the Manufacturing Districts of England ( I835)- A longdescription of the new baths building 1 is given, with the rules andterms of admission. The old Victoria Baths provided a news-room,refreshment-room, and observatory, as well as the means to "immersethe body in water," and Rule 10 reads as follows : " Forthe gratification of persons desirous of seeing the fountains, &c.,in full operation, the baths will be open for exhibition to thepublic every Wednesday afternoon, from two to six o'clock (duringwhich time no bathing can be allowed), on the payment of 6d. for eachperson; and a select band will be in attendance. Visitors, by takinga bath, are entitled to admission to the conservatory and engineroom, where they may take a glass of filtered sea-water free ofcharge." The "observatory" in connection with thebaths seems to have been a very select place indeed, for theregulations inform us that "chairs to sit on the promenade maybe had at the pay-office for one penny each ; and for sitting in theobservatory during high water, or at any other time, at one shillingeach."


The progress of thetown, he further tells us, had been " in a wholesale manner bystreets and not by single dwellings." " Coronation-walk,Nevill-street, Eastbank-street, Londonstreet, Seabank-road,Hill-street, Union-street, Bold-street, Chapel-street,Hoghton-street, Fleetwood-street,1 and the Victoria Promenade andManchester - road are not only formed, but many of them arecompletely built up; and other streets, crescents, and squares areeither planned or suggested."


The eastern end ofHoghton-street between Union-street and Manchester-road was then socalled. It also extended a short distance beyond Manchester-road, thebeginning of what is now Queen's-road.

THE OLD STATION HOUSE

Talking of rudeness...it was YOU that started to talk about the history of our local railways...so don't have a go at me for going off at a tangent. Oh, and wrong again. The Liverpool, Crosby and Southport railway was the first into the town in 1848, not the line to Manchester that was built in the mid 1850s.

[said]

Talking of rudeness...it was YOU that started to talk about the history of our local railways...so don't have a go at me for going off at a tangent. Oh, and wrong again. The Liverpool, Crosby and Southport railway was the first into the town in 1848, not the line to Manchester that was built in the mid 1850s.

Is that MORE friendly advice? The topic was a question as to why 'Groves' were placed as they are now. The Groves referred to, and the only 'Groves' that I know are near Railway lines. Hence, the reason why Railway lines were mentioned and a guess as to the formation of such streets. I am going on history books written in the 18th century, not having been around then - i would not actually know myself. So - do you have any idea as to why these Groves are positioned as they are and in those locations?

[Alikado]

I suspect that the pine trees were planted to stabilise the sides of the bridges over the railway and presumably the roads where named later.

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