Parliament Closure again !

[silver fox]

Of course the remain narrative has always been that there are 17.4 million thick people who voted with their clubbed hands and over 16 million intellectual giants who understood everything and marked the papers with their gifted hands.


Such pompous arrogance, typical from the I'm alright Jack brigade desperate to stay in their club.

Not at all, but a very large number voted on a campaign of misinformation and outright lies, in fact I find it extremely difficult to find any truth or honesty in the pre-referendum leave campaign.

I'm very well aware that politicians as a breed are liberal with their propaganda, but this is the first campaign I've seen which is based entirely on lies, without one iota of truth.

The really sad part is that so many are now so tired of the whole damn thing, they will agree to almost anything just to get the damn thing finished, one way or another.

Then with the current fluid state of politics in this country it is possible that a General Election could even see Farage and his gang of single agenda parrots gain seats in Parliament, that would be our worst nightmare.

[Lamparilla]

For 1 week from October 8th to 14th.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...-week-11825605

They could have done it from 10th-15th, but that would have meant that Johnson had to attend a PMQ, which he's desperately trying to avoid.

[local]

Not at all, but a very large number voted on a campaign of misinformation and outright lies, in fact I find it extremely difficult to find any truth or honesty in the pre-referendum leave campaign.

I'm very well aware that politicians as a breed are liberal with their propaganda, but this is the first campaign I've seen which is based entirely on lies, without one iota of truth.

The really sad part is that so many are now so tired of the whole damn thing, they will agree to almost anything just to get the damn thing finished, one way or another.

Then with the current fluid state of politics in this country it is possible that a General Election could even see Farage and his gang of single agenda parrots gain seats in Parliament, that would be our worst nightmare.

Its a strange and somewhat arrogant position that you place yourself in. Elevated above 17.4 million people.

That's a mighty big pile of people you look down on suprised there's enough oxygen for you up there..


Farage only survives because Brexit hasn't been done, he has no other raison d'être.

[silver fox]

Its a strange and somewhat arrogant position that you place yourself in. Elevated above 17.4 million people.

That's a mighty big pile of people you look down on suprised there's enough oxygen for you up there..


Farage only survives because Brexit hasn't been done, he has no other raison d'être.

The arrogance comes from the leave campaign not from me, repeat a lie often enough and it somehow becomes fact, play on peoples fears and you will get some result.

Agree with you ref Farage and that alone is a major problem, this reduces his campaign to a form of blackmail, "do it my way, then I'll keep quiet" plus of course Farage and followers have no clue or plan for post Brexit as if Brexit is an end in itself.

Surely most understand that Brexit alone solves nothing, yet this is the sole object of so many Brexit supporters.

[The PNP]

The really sad part is that so many are now so tired of the whole damn thing, they will agree to almost anything just to get the damn thing finished, one way or another.

And it won't be....Leave, even with a 'deal', is only to enter the transition period. Because several more years of tiresome arguing will follow, i.e. the negotiations for getting our permanent deal.


STOP BREXIT!

[Toodles McGinty]

To be fair, when the most Googled search on the day after the referendum was 'what is the EU?', it's hard to reach the conclusion that people were fully informed before they voted. Maybe not 'thick people voting with clubbed hands', but dreadfully misinformed.

Until the EU Anti Tax Avoidance Directive was announced in 2010, there was little coverage of the EU, apart from the usual lies about bendy bananas etc. Which incidentally Johnson is still peddling.

Then suddenly the press, most of which is owned by hard right billionaires, took an immense interest. Coincidentally, (or not at all coincidentally) social media was hit by anti-EU campaigns. Before 2010, the public wasn't remotely interested in the EU. Didn't care. After 2010 it was forced upon us by the MSM.

There are two excellent articles on this:

Media Lies and Brexit - Ethical Journalism and the EU.

UK Press Coverage of the EU Referendum.

The second is particularly detailed and shows clearly how right wing newspapers manipulated opinion against the EU. Neither pieces are biased one way or another. The first is self explanatory, the second is a study by Reuters.

Of course, this systematic attack on the EU led to the rise of UKIP, previously seen as something of a joke on the level of the Monster Raving Loony Party. And Cameron panicked. 'The Atlantic' has a piece on how few voters really had enough of a grasp on the social sciences needed to evaluate Brexit.

Once established, the same methods were used in the Euro elections by the Brexit Party, and now by Johnson. Short messages, fear mongering, targeting a certain cross section of the population.

It is a hugely successful tactic that has been used all over the world. First in minor elections, then once the pattern was established, in the Trump campaign. And people fall for it.

The Johnsons, Farages and Trumps of this world have no moral compass, so have no problem misleading and misdirecting the public to their own ends. I don't see how anyone can read those articles and come to any other conclusion than we've been played. Strings pulled. Completely manipulated.

[AdmiralAckbar]

I don't see how anyone can read those articles and come to any other conclusion than we've been played. Strings pulled. Completely manipulated.

I fully agree, but the problem is denial, when bolstered by arrogance, can be a very powerful hurdle to overcome.

[Alikado]

The trouble is, though, that because Johnson tried to do it for a 5 week period in order to get his precious no-deal, no-one trusts him when 'prorogue' is mentioned now, even if they did beforehand.

I think it is the ROGUE bit that triggers the distrust.

[gazaprop]

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-refer...atic-exercise/

This is worth a look with regard to the 'biggest democratic exercise' claim.

Toodles - have you got one of those necklaces Hermione had in Harry Potter - the one which allowed her to be in two places at once - that second paper by David A L Levy is a monster!

[Toodles McGinty]

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-refer...atic-exercise/

This is worth a look with regard to the 'biggest democratic exercise' claim.

Toodles - have you got one of those necklaces Hermione had in Harry Potter - the one which allowed her to be in two places at once - that second paper by David A L Levy is a monster!

Don't know about that. I'd like an invisibility cloak though

It is a long read, but I reckon it illustrates the way that the press, particularly the right wing press, went from not being that bothered about the EU to a raging all out attack to get Brexit through. Particularly the usual suspect such as the Daily Heil, noted in the first article as " in 2011 the...paper warned that Germany was turning Europe into a “Fourth Reich”..". I've read that quite a lot on here. Mainly by 'Said', so I'm not sure it counts, but there is that reinforcement of the notion that we are being crushed under the boot of the EU, rather than being a privileged member.

Years of repetition certainly worked. Hence the repetition of a few specific phrases we're hearing now, 'surrender bill', 'get Brexit done'. Over and over.

[AdmiralAckbar]

Don't know about that. I'd like an invisibility cloak though

Next best thing would be a camouflage jacket ... went to buy one once but couldn't find any.

[Alikado]

Next best thing would be a camouflage jacket ... went to buy one once but couldn't find any.

I used to have one but I can't find it.

[seivad]

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-refer...atic-exercise/

This is worth a look with regard to the 'biggest democratic exercise' claim.

Thanks for that. Interesting to see how it morphed from Cameron's (correct) statement in 2016: "Last week saw one of the biggest democratic exercised in our history"

Toodles - have you got one of those necklaces Hermione had in Harry Potter - the one which allowed her to be in two places at once second paper by David A L Levy is a monster!

When something's that big, I often cheat. Executive summary and conclusion!

[local]

The problem is not Johnson he is simply another hamster on the wheel until Brexit is done.

An acceptance of the vote outcome by all participants in the referendum would have seen this done and dusted a long time ago, saved us a fortune and allowed us to concentrate on improving the country.

Farage and Johnson the pantomime baddies courtesy of the remain show would not be in their current positions without the anti democracy extremists actions.

[Alikado]

The problem is not Johnson he is simply another hamster on the wheel until Brexit is done.

An acceptance of the vote outcome by all participants in the referendum would have seen this done and dusted a long time ago, saved us a fortune and allowed us to concentrate on improving the country.

Farage and Johnson the pantomime baddies courtesy of the remain show would not be in their current positions without the anti democracy extremists actions.

If the ERG had behaved themselves and followed the Party Whip we would have been out long ago and now looking forward to rejoining. You cannot blame Labour and the other Opposition Parties for the Conservative Parties own failings.