Is it time to open up ?

[Alikado]

Can admin delete said's alphabet spaghetti please?
I am getting RSI everytime I read a new post.

You can alter your display settings in 'User Control Panel' to display the latest on top.

[Hamble]

You can alter your display settings in 'User Control Panel' to display the latest on top.

Thank you.

[Toodles McGinty]

If you had said Labour supporters I would have answered differently.
You asked me about socialists.

I cannot think why a socialist would choose a holiday on a cruise ship (capitalist floating hotel) with workers paid below the minimum wage (in lieu of board and wages).
Workers are mostly non tax paying foreign nationals.

Many ships operate an elite system based on wealth not politics.
If you pay the price guests who don't are not allowed in certain restaurants or party's and guest areas.

This has taken a weird turn, but the best threads do

Well, when you put it that way, I don't know how anyone with a shred of decency, regardless of their political persuasion, would go on a cruise ship. My aunt & uncle virtually lived on them, which thinking abou tit, proves my first sentence...

But, when you consider it, are there any walks of life where there isn't some poor sod working for a pittance while the rest of us enjoy the fruits of their labour? From a local chippy to the Savoy. Buying a phone? Even the fruit in a supermarket. A dyed in the wool socialist would have to live on roadkill and dress in leaves, if you take it to the nth degree. And then that might be a product of a capitalist car company or wealthy landowner.

I'm going to start on that speech Anne Reid made in 'Years and Years' again, I can feel it. Quite possibly one of the best ever on TV

I suppose most of us have beliefs and principals, but have to live a normal life alongside them. Otherwise we'd have no room in the house with all the homeless people, stray cats, adopted babies and the rest.

Nonce is a very bad word as an insult.

Yes, I didn't mean it literally, just as an insult. I'm not an alkie, didn't like the insult though.

[Alikado]

Thank you.

The post above will now be the post below, takes some getting used to.

[Hamble]

This has taken a weird turn, but the best threads do

Well, when you put it that way, I don't know how anyone with a shred of decency, regardless of their political persuasion, would go on a cruise ship. My aunt & uncle virtually lived on them, which thinking abou tit, proves my first sentence...

But, when you consider it, are there any walks of life where there isn't some poor sod working for a pittance while the rest of us enjoy the fruits of their labour? From a local chippy to the Savoy. Buying a phone? Even the fruit in a supermarket. A dyed in the wool socialist would have to live on roadkill and dress in leaves, if you take it to the nth degree. And then that might be a product of a capitalist car company or wealthy landowner.


I'm going to start on that speech Anne Reid made in 'Years and Years' again, I can feel it. Quite possibly one of the best ever on TV

I suppose most of us have beliefs and principals, but have to live a normal life alongside them. Otherwise we'd have no room in the house with all the homeless people, stray cats, adopted babies and the rest.



Yes, I didn't mean it literally, just as an insult. I'm not an alkie, didn't like the insult though.

The service industry cruise ship workers have a tough time.They choose the life to escape from poverty and to improve their employment beyond (often) little opportunity in their birth country.

The wavy staff are the same more protected in workplace with good job promotion.

It is a 2 tier work system I can live with.

Passengers are as varied as home.We have met those who have worked all their lives and enjoying their retirement.

Every trip there is carers with cared wheelchair and able.
Parents with adult physically or mentally disabled children.
Quite often paralyzed adults with a non family member carer paid on holiday to assist as paid on land.

The lonely and isolated elderly.
Grandparents with grandchildren minding in school hols for working parents.

Widows and widowers.

The clubs are great.
Singles only
Same sex partner groups.

Holiday choice provides a service.
Many of the above may struggle in other holiday choice options.

Do socialists belong to the National Trust?

My conscience is clear.

[Toodles McGinty]

The service industry cruise ship workers have a tough time.They choose the life to escape from poverty and to improve their employment beyond (often) little opportunity in their birth country.

The wavy staff are the same more protected in workplace with good job promotion.

It is a 2 tier work system I can live with.

Passengers are as varied as home.We have met those who have worked all their lives and enjoying their retirement.

Every trip there is carers with cared wheelchair and able.
Parents with adult physically or mentally disabled children.
Quite often paralyzed adults with a non family member carer paid on holiday to assist as paid on land.

The lonely and isolated elderly.
Grandparents with grandchildren minding in school hols for working parents.

Widows and widowers.

The clubs are great.
Singles only
Same sex partner groups.

Holiday choice provides a service.
Many of the above may struggle in other holiday choice options.

Do socialists belong to the National Trust?

My conscience is clear.

That's alright then.

I don't know if socialists belong to the NT. I can ask. I know a few champagne socialists. I bet they do.

A friend goes on a lot of cruises so she meets people. She takes her husband, but he's the most antisocial chap ever, and spends most of the time in the cabin. Apart from when he goes on mini-cruises to Holland, alone.

Yes, we judge him.

As I said if you look closely enough, there's always some poor sod being taken advantage of. And usually someone else at the top of the food chain. Human nature. No amount of politics or conscience will ever change that.

On a positive note, we're hurtling towards extinction, so we'll all be equal soon. Unless you've a bunker in New Zealand.

[greenmachine]

People who are ill today are being denied treatment to protect people who might become ill tomorrow?, I don’t think you are right there in fact I believe it’s quite the opposite, how old are you?.
Life is far more important than the economy, jobs, the suicide rate and if you found yourself on a ventilator with dedicated medical staff helping you fight for your life whatever age you were your recovery would be the best present your child could ever get for Christmas.
Personally if I found myself on a ventilator I would kill for one last breath and a chance to live to see the sun. (or howling rain ) come up tomorrow even if I had nothing and had to live in a tent eating dirty carrots I would want to live and so would you .. at any cost.
Ok no one lives forever but there are many active people over 81 that are fit enough to chase you down and beat you with a stick for suggesting old lives don’t matter.
Christ what next

Im not suggesting old lives dont matter. But young lives matter more. Im 61. With high blood pressure, high cholestrol. Iv had a good life. Born at the tail end of a good time when jobs were plentifull and it was easy to get on the property ladder. Id like my grandkids to have my opportunities. As we are no longer a society of hunter gatherers the economy is what matters. No money equals no food on the table. Allso the average life expectancy in the UK is 81 and 2 months. The average age of people that died with covid is 82 and 5 months. You could argue get covid live longer. Let the vulnerable shield and let the rest get on with life. Crossing the road is risky. But we take precautions. We dont ban cars.

[Alikado]

Im not suggesting old lives dont matter. But young lives matter more. Im 61. With high blood pressure, high cholestrol. Iv had a good life. Born at the tail end of a good time when jobs were plentifull and it was easy to get on the property ladder. Id like my grandkids to have my opportunities. As we are no longer a society of hunter gatherers the economy is what matters. No money equals no food on the table. Allso the average life expectancy in the UK is 81 and 2 months. The average age of people that died with covid is 82 and 5 months. You could argue get covid live longer. Let the vulnerable shield and let the rest get on with life. Crossing the road is risky. But we take precautions. We dont ban cars.

If you make the vulnerable continue to shield you might as well just round them up and dispatch them, it's no life and it would save a few Bob and ease the housing crisis.

[Hamble]

Im not suggesting old lives dont matter. But young lives matter more. Im 61. With high blood pressure, high cholestrol. Iv had a good life. Born at the tail end of a good time when jobs were plentifull and it was easy to get on the property ladder. Id like my grandkids to have my opportunities. As we are no longer a society of hunter gatherers the economy is what matters. No money equals no food on the table. Allso the average life expectancy in the UK is 81 and 2 months. The average age of people that died with covid is 82 and 5 months. You could argue get covid live longer. Let the vulnerable shield and let the rest get on with life. Crossing the road is risky. But we take precautions. We dont ban cars.

We don't ban cars as they are not a state owned industry.

The State has taken on all responsibility for health therefore the State is responsible for protecting the nation from this and all health risks.

If you have ill health life expectancy is lower.
Ill health plus Covid lowers it more.

[Toodles McGinty]

You could argue get covid live longer. Let the vulnerable shield and let the rest get on with life. Crossing the road is risky. But we take precautions. We dont ban cars.

We are taking precautions, and struggling with those.

If we say 'sod it' and open up, the strain on the NHS will crush it. It's tough enough in winter, when they are struggling in regular times. Add Covid to that, and there's real trouble.

The vulnerable want a life too.

[local]

The nurse from the Royal Liverpool on the BBC News summed it up well its still Autumn and were on the edge (or similar)

The season is normally later in the year to March.

This will be rough.