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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    What really annoys me is that initially the medical community, both home and internationally, was largely ignored in favour of Dominic Cummings idea of 'herd immunity'. It was only when the people of this country, and experts from other countries questioned the tactics, that Johnson & co started listening to experts. Maybe they wanted to prove that they didn't need 'experts'.

    Cummings must have one hell of a grip on Johnson. If anyone is in any doubt that Cummings instigated the 'herd' theory, in which it is 'OK if old people die to save the economy', take a look at this:

    "Herd Immunity Infected UK Policy' But Who Was Patient Zero for this Toxic Transatlantic Idea?
    3 April 2020

    https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/03/t...atlantic-idea/

    I'd have a read of that before accusations of 'it's all just bias against Johnson' are bandied around. He's had this lunatic idea for over seven years. Cummings must have been 'spaffing' himself senseless when the opportunity to run this theory arose.

    Basically this country is run by a social misfit, with a huge chip on his shoulder about the Civil Service, delusions of intellectual superiority, who is quite happy to employ racists and freaks who believe in eugenics, and who spent several years in Russia doing nobody knows what to the extent some believe he's a threat to national security.

    Johnson, as we all know, is a proven liar with no regard for Parliament, who has no real interests in matters of state beyond wanting to be regarded as 'Churchillian' to the point of trying to copy his speech patterns, is basically a jumped up lazy journalist who desperately wants to be adored rather than serve this country, and whom it has been said by virtually everybody that knows him couldn't run a **** up in a brewery.

    We don't even know how many kids he's got, preferring as he does, to let others do the job of raising them. Which is pretty much his attitude to every job, particularly that of PM. He's got the position he dreamed about. Now let Cummings do any thinking that needs to be done.

    March 12th in the middle of Cheltenham: “banning events will have little effect on the spread”. What an extraordinary claim by Johnson.

    I look forward to seeing the ‘scientific advice’ that told them banning large events would not help, when we get to the public inquiry.

    But sure, all this is completely fabricated by those who just didn't vote for Johnson. Sure.


    Just up your street tales of secret meetings with Trumps team, right wing foundations, "sources close to" difficult to know how hard to laugh.

    A dose of Brexit thrown in for good measure.

    Its a perfect recipe for the disgruntled lefty losers to salivate over.



    Then there's "scientific advice" about banning large events like those dam right wing Swedes have done they are just too casual, social gatherings, restaurants well at least the super right swedish have banned meetings over 50 in number.

    Back to the gin I suppose to dig up some more conspiracy theories.





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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Just up your street tales of secret meetings with Trumps team, right wing foundations, "sources close to" difficult to know how hard to laugh.

    A dose of Brexit thrown in for good measure.

    Its a perfect recipe for the disgruntled lefty losers to salivate over.



    Then there's "scientific advice" about banning large events like those dam right wing Swedes have done they are just too casual, social gatherings, restaurants well at least the super right swedish have banned meetings over 50 in number.

    Back to the gin I suppose to dig up some more conspiracy theories.
    Yes, none of it happened. There are no documents online that you can read yourself, no essays by Cummings that are readily available right here. Cummings and Brexit aren't inextricably linked, considering his hand in it.

    There are no right wing foundations at all. No Young Britons Foundation. No connection at all. Steve Bannon doesn't exist. Nigel Farage doesn't exist. Cambidge Analytica never existed. It's all a left wing conspiracy theory.

    It's all a big lie. Because your precious, darling, beloved Boris isn't a shallow puppet being controlled by Cummings. Who probably also doesn't exist.

    Because a vacuous pissant such as yourself, churning out the same moronic insults post after post, cannot think beyond a Daily Mail headline. Even though they have now turned on your paramour. Is Boris the top in your fantasies?

    Whether Sweden is left or right is inconsequential. 358 deaths from 6000 cases is.

    So we are back to the tedious 'lefty-losers' and now you're fixed on 'gin'. I wonder how many hundreds of posts it'll take before you move on from that one?

    No matter. You're still a complete arsehole. A besotted, Johnson lickspittle. A tedious sycophant whose only answer to anything is 'loser'. Like a 13 year old. Are you a teenager in your Boris fantasies?

    In all my years on here, I've never found anyone so completely vapid I'd block them. You are now the first.

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  5. #33
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    Is any one else looking at Sweden with a mixture of dread and fascination?

    Every country has a different adjustment to tailor with expert advice and be able to change tactics at any stage.

    Sweden has a comparatively high number of single living residents who are using social distance to slow down the rate of infection.

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...rn-from-sweden

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  7. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Just up your street tales of secret meetings with Trumps team, right wing foundations, "sources close to" difficult to know how hard to laugh.

    A dose of Brexit thrown in for good measure.

    Its a perfect recipe for the disgruntled lefty losers to salivate over.



    Then there's "scientific advice" about banning large events like those dam right wing Swedes have done they are just too casual, social gatherings, restaurants well at least the super right swedish have banned meetings over 50 in number.

    Back to the gin I suppose to dig up some more conspiracy theories.
    Don't know about "lefty losers" your post sounds like frantic distraction and diversionary tactics, what conspiracy theories are you on about?

    You're deluded if you think comment and questions regarding government action or inaction come only from disgruntled Labour voters, when even the Tory rags are getting restless, hardly the home of Labour voters.

    This epidemic is, or should be above party politics, but of course the government in charge will be the ones answerable.

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  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamble View Post
    Is any one else looking at Sweden with a mixture of dread and fascination?

    Every country has a different adjustment to tailor with expert advice and be able to change tactics at any stage.

    Sweden has a comparatively high number of single living residents who are using social distance to slow down the rate of infection.

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article...rn-from-sweden
    More dread, TBH. While you're correct about it being a different society than ours regarding single living residents, I'd put them a few weeks behind us regarding the virus. Similar to us being 2-3 weeks behind Italy. Where they might be in a month's time will be interesting. In a good way, I hope.

    As I mentioned in my previous post, 358 deaths from a little over 6000 cases is pretty high. Higher than the USA was initially, before they eventually had to admit that 'taking it on the chin' wasn't working. I hope the Swedish public, despite their government's attitude otherwise, will see what is going on in the rest of the world and decide themselves to self isolate.

    I'm really dreading the spread in India, more than anywhere else. Such a massive population, mostly with no self isolation options. Hundreds of thousands of little villages with nothing in the way of a health service. That's terrifying.

    That and some small Pacific islands with close knit populations. Awful.

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    Yes, none of it happened. There are no documents online that you can read yourself, no essays by Cummings that are readily available right here. Cummings and Brexit aren't inextricably linked, considering his hand in it.

    There are no right wing foundations at all. No Young Britons Foundation. No connection at all. Steve Bannon doesn't exist. Nigel Farage doesn't exist. Cambidge Analytica never existed. It's all a left wing conspiracy theory.

    It's all a big lie. Because your precious, darling, beloved Boris isn't a shallow puppet being controlled by Cummings. Who probably also doesn't exist.

    Because a vacuous pissant such as yourself, churning out the same moronic insults post after post, cannot think beyond a Daily Mail headline. Even though they have now turned on your paramour. Is Boris the top in your fantasies?

    Whether Sweden is left or right is inconsequential. 358 deaths from 6000 cases is.

    So we are back to the tedious 'lefty-losers' and now you're fixed on 'gin'. I wonder how many hundreds of posts it'll take before you move on from that one?

    No matter. You're still a complete arsehole. A besotted, Johnson lickspittle. A tedious sycophant whose only answer to anything is 'loser'. Like a 13 year old. Are you a teenager in your Boris fantasies?

    In all my years on here, I've never found anyone so completely vapid I'd block them. You are now the first.


    Wonderful a triumph of reasoning and measured argument it appears I have hit a nerve with my musings, do you feel better now ?

    You should retire to your foil lined bedroom with your bottle of gin oops mentioned it again

    Your little world is awash with tales of giant right wing conspiracy theories and their covert meetings.

    Cummings the puppet master is a favourite well worn line of yours;

    I shall in the spirit of your dysfunctional thinking conclude that coronavirus was spread by Cummings to stop HS2 which he opposed and called a disaster but his puppet Boris ignored him and gave it the go ahead.


    I have spoilt your meanderings, thats me in the dog house again.


  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by local View Post
    Wonderful a triumph of reasoning and measured argument it appears I have hit a nerve with my musings, do you feel better now ?

    You should retire to your foil lined bedroom with your bottle of gin oops mentioned it again

    Your little world is awash with tales of giant right wing conspiracy theories and their covert meetings.

    Cummings the puppet master is a favourite well worn line of yours;

    I shall in the spirit of your dysfunctional thinking conclude that coronavirus was spread by Cummings to stop HS2 which he opposed and called a disaster but his puppet Boris ignored him and gave it the go ahead.


    I have spoilt your meanderings, thats me in the dog house again.

    What a load of disjointed tosh, are you suffering cabin fever? You and only you are the one blabbering about conspiracy theories, actual events, statements etc; are only what is recorded, commenting on actual events is hardly building any conspiracy theory.

    Ego upset? because your great hero "let's get it done Johnson" is proving indecisive and pretty clueless, you voted for them, just tough we all have to live with it.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    What a load of disjointed tosh, are you suffering cabin fever? You and only you are the one blabbering about conspiracy theories, actual events, statements etc; are only what is recorded, commenting on actual events is hardly building any conspiracy theory.

    Ego upset? because your great hero "let's get it done Johnson" is proving indecisive and pretty clueless, you voted for them, just tough we all have to live with it.
    I've blocked the a-hole now. I can only see if he's quoted, and even that is tedious with his particular brand of Johnson-love and witterings about lefties and 'gin'.

    I find it disturbing when people resolutely refuse to question or scrutinise those they've voted into power. Whatever party someone follows. Just blind faith, without hesitation. It's as though they don't have an independent thought. Or maybe short 3 word phrases and slogans are about as much as some people can process.

    Similarly, if those in power are doing a sterling job, I'd say so. Albeit through gritted teeth as far as the Tories are concerned. Such as up to now, despite his lack of experience and under the present circumstances, Sunak is doing well. OK, he's been forced to adopt socialism at the speed of light, but I like what he's had to say so far.

    There have been some good, one-nation Tories. In fact pre-Thatcher, they were a pretty central bunch, not so far removed from New Labour in some cases. If there is a lesson from this, it is: don't elect / promote sociopaths to positions of power.

    Johnson, Cummings, Raab, Gove, Davis, Farage, Patel, all sociopaths exhibiting a lack of empathy, guilt, conscience, or remorse. Bad for all of us, no matter how you vote.

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  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    Stocks of test kits couldn't be stockpiled until the virus was identified, but even then our government did precisely zilch in terms of preparation when the reality was known, instead went for a wait and see policy, then of course the herd immunity policy.

    Eventually the real situation penetrated the thick skulls of this government and surprise, surprise found that other countries had already bought up most available stocks, plenty of statements from wholesalers and distributors who had or could obtain supplies being ignored or refused.
    I know you hate all things Tory, and in your eyes whatever Boris did would be wrong, but in all seriousness, do you really and honestly think that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott would have handled the situation any better?

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  17. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbecause View Post
    I know you hate all things Tory, and in your eyes whatever Boris did would be wrong, but in all seriousness, do you really and honestly think that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott would have handled the situation any better?
    If I can have a stab at this, I'd say there wouldn't be massive differences, as Labour wouldn't have been in power long enough to make any sweeping changes to the NHS. They'd have been in power a matter of weeks before the WHO was notified.

    So even though the NHS was their priority according to the manifesto, I doubt it would have been in any better shape. Not in days.

    I think there would have been some differences. The 'herd immunity' nonsense wouldn't have been considered. Particularly not with Ashworth in charge of health. And I think that they would have accepted the invitation to participate in the EU procurement schemes. After 8 meetings with the EU, I doubt they'd have just said 'we didn't get the email'.

    Not massive differences, but maybe a few hundred less deaths. Just my opinion, others will think differently. It's impossible to say really. Just speculation.

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  19. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbecause View Post
    I know you hate all things Tory, and in your eyes whatever Boris did would be wrong, but in all seriousness, do you really and honestly think that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott would have handled the situation any better?
    That is the great unknown, never denied that I have no love for the Tories, but if Johnson gets it right I will certainly acknowledge that, come on I want to see this virus controlled just as much as anyone else and political differences don't come into it.

    However there is no denying the fact that 10 years of Tory wilful neglect have left the NHS with no spare capacity, any major health issue immediately creates problems, equally no denying that Johnson was slow of the mark when this virus became apparent.

    Contrary to what you may believe, I want our government to succeed, lives and livelyhoods are much more important than politics or politicians, but there will almost certainly a inquest afterwards.

  20. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    Don't know about "lefty losers" your post sounds like frantic distraction and diversionary tactics, what conspiracy theories are you on about?

    You're deluded if you think comment and questions regarding government action or inaction come only from disgruntled Labour voters, when even the Tory rags are getting restless, hardly the home of Labour voters.

    This epidemic is, or should be above party politics, but of course the government in charge will be the ones answerable.


    If you read the article in the link from potty mouth ;

    https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/03/t...atlantic-idea/

    you may just may think differently ?


    here is a well established transatlantic alliance between key figures in Boris Johnson’s Government and the team around Donald Trump.

    I’ve documented some of the key meetings and connections around Steve Bannon, Robert Mercer and the Young Britons Foundation. DeSmog has exposed the many financial connections between US corporations, right-wing foundations and the network of opaquely funded think tanks and lobby groups in the UK, particularly those associated with Matthew Elliott and his ‘Tufton Street’ network. Elliott was reported to be advising the Johnson administration and, of course, was a key figure in the successful Vote Leave Brexit campaign, whose members now dominate the British Government.

    This network of think tanks and lobbyists have successfully derailed climate change legislation and many of the same claims of ‘hoax’ and excessive intervention have been deployed over COVI



    There is plenty more of the 2+2 is five fake journalism in the article.

  21. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty View Post
    If I can have a stab at this, I'd say there wouldn't be massive differences, as Labour wouldn't have been in power long enough to make any sweeping changes to the NHS. They'd have been in power a matter of weeks before the WHO was notified.

    So even though the NHS was their priority according to the manifesto, I doubt it would have been in any better shape. Not in days.

    I think there would have been some differences. The 'herd immunity' nonsense wouldn't have been considered. Particularly not with Ashworth in charge of health. And I think that they would have accepted the invitation to participate in the EU procurement schemes. After 8 meetings with the EU, I doubt they'd have just said 'we didn't get the email'.

    Not massive differences, but maybe a few hundred less deaths. Just my opinion, others will think differently. It's impossible to say really. Just speculation.
    A few hundred deaths , when you take it back a couple of weeks, take it back from the peak and look at the total, which ever way you look at it it inept, negligent, indecisive, incompetent, they are obviously not up to the job.

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  23. #44
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    With reference to local's post #42, it's worth noting how some regarded Jeremy Corbyn's past associations relevant and newsworthy, but when it comes to investigation of links among prominent conservatives are "2+2 is five fake journalism".

  24. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by silver fox View Post
    Don't see medics nor scientists coming in for criticism anywhere, in the main the complaints are the tardiness of government, promises made for action, coming nowhere near close, remember we were aware just as early as anyone else as the spread of the virus, but this government did nothing.

    The claims now of difficulty in getting the equipment is hardly surprising, but not totally true, there are producers in this country making up testing kits, 95% of these are being sold to other countries, because we haven't set up to use them.

    The company Novacyt has sold test kits to the value of £17.8M, but only £1m of those sales have been in the UK, apparently because we can't make use of them due to lack of lab facilities.

    Yes we need to fully support those who are trying to get the equipment, all those working so hard to treat and test virus cases, but the harsh fact is, many frontline staff are getting very angry indeed over the lack of PPE.

    As one doctor put it, we are sending doctors and nurses to treat virus patients with the same protection they would use for making a sandwich or cup of tea.

    Would agree it isn't the time for inquests yet, but all indications are clear that this government has been slow to the point of rank incompetence, I hope the electorate don't forget.

    It would appear that there is much mis-information given about these testing kits. People are expecting that once they have a kit, they can immediately discover if they are clear of the virus or not. It does not work like that! These test kits are 'Antibody' kits, they test for general antibodies IGG and Igm only. If a person is already suffering from Covid -19, this will not test for a virus - it will show up 'negative'. It takes 28 days for a test kit to show that a person is clear. This is the rapid Covid-19 test.

    There is also a lab test, the Antigen test, which involves a blood test and requires a technician knowing what the antigens are. These are not widely available as there is a shortage of viral material which is synthesised by viral banks, in only a few specialist areas.

    Also many test kits have been found to be faulty, and some have been found to be contaminated, which have all had to be sent back.

    You tube: Peston v Prof. Jonathan Van Tam.https://twitter.com/addicted2newz/st...76879003648?s=

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