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Originally Posted by Mr B S Sniffer
"My sympathies lie with the Tories" I don't know how you came to that conclusion
Easy! Because you say a lot and it means little! Right out of their bible!
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A lot of old heroes were on TV this week. Those who had given their all for this country, for peace. That their legacy is about to be torn to pieces was obviously painful to them.
Here's a piece from the Graun today, which speaks powerfully about that. It's worth reading the full column:
Above all, the D-day celebrations signify a shared purpose now lost. What was so painfully won is being put insouciantly to one side, from crucial values to the tools of economic management, and a society absent of an overriding shared purpose is unable to muster resistance. Contemporary capitalism, left too much to its own devices by the rightwing proposition that the state must keep out of the economy, does not work. The inequalities it has thrown up are, as in the 1930s, provoking powerful societal protests. And, as in the 1930s, a new wave of demagogues, of whom Nigel Farage is a prime example, is blaming an out-of-touch elite for misgoverning a population needy of change.
Foreigners must lie at the root of our ills and there is no greater or more intrusive foreign agent than the European Union. Vote Brexit – it offers a purpose otherwise lacking.Incredibly, there are even British rightwing politicians using exactly the same language as Hitler and Mussolini. For both dictators, the popular will, expressed in referendums manipulated to produce the right result, had to override parliaments and democratic assemblies, which must be suspended or prorogued if they oppose it. Yet Tory leader hopeful Dominic Raab, deranged by the religion of Brexit, proposes just such a suspension of parliament this autumn to deliver a no-deal Brexit. It is crazed and totalitarian in its spirit, the antithesis of what the millions, including my father, fought for 75 years ago. The feebleness of the reaction – no such man should ever be entrusted with the prime ministership of Britain or even a position in its government – betokens how far we have sunk.
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Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty
A lot of old heroes were on TV this week. Those who had given their all for this country, for peace. That their legacy is about to be torn to pieces was obviously painful to them.
Here's a piece from the Graun today, which speaks powerfully about that. It's worth reading the full column:
My little conscience will be along in a minute
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Originally Posted by Toodles McGinty
A lot of old heroes were on TV this week. Those who had given their all for this country, for peace. That their legacy is about to be torn to pieces was obviously painful to them.
Here's a piece from the Graun today, which speaks powerfully about that. It's worth reading the full column:
If what you have quoted is an example of the Graum - then no, it is not worth reading. What did those war heroes fight for? It certainly was not to feed the propaganda that is issued on that square box in your living room! The examples that you have quoted above are the views of some very bigoted people - Brexit is to recreate what those soldiers fought and died for - it is to bring our own country back to the British people. If those views you have shown agree with need for food banks and people sleeping rough on the streets, huge unemployment - and don't for one moment think of quoting misleading government figures on that - higher than necessary food costs, exploitation of immigrants etc., then they cannot be British!
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Originally Posted by said
If what you have quoted is an example of the Graum - then no, it is not worth reading. What did those war heroes fight for? It certainly was not to feed the propaganda that is issued on that square box in your living room! The examples that you have quoted above are the views of some very bigoted people - Brexit is to recreate what those soldiers fought and died for - it is to bring our own country back to the British people. If those views you have shown agree with need for food banks and people sleeping rough on the streets, huge unemployment - and don't for one moment think of quoting misleading government figures on that - higher than necessary food costs, exploitation of immigrants etc., then they cannot be British!
You type some ****.
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"...the Graum" - the wonderful irony of that .
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The itrony is I have been trying to explain to a family war veteran why the referendum vote hasn't been implemented.
"We fought for democracy what happened ? we might as well have let the Germans in"
"Don't these MP's work for us" ?
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Originally Posted by said
What did those war heroes fight for? It certainly was not to feed the propaganda that is issued on that square box in your living room! The examples that you have quoted above are the views of some very bigoted people - Brexit is to recreate what those soldiers fought and died for - it is to bring our own country back to the British people. If those views you have shown agree with need for food banks and people sleeping rough on the streets, huge unemployment - and don't for one moment think of quoting misleading government figures on that - higher than necessary food costs, exploitation of immigrants etc., then they cannot be British!
I shake my head in despair every time I read jingoistic claptrap like this.
Yes, British and allied troops fought to stop the invasion of Britain, but the idea that Brexit is to recreate the Britain of their time is ridiculous. And believe me, you wouldn't want it.
You talk about hardship, you have no idea what hardship is. In 1939 the youngest of the men who joined up were born in 1921, my dad was one of them. They were born shortly after WW1, had lived through the Great Depression, and grew up in a country where the working class was seriously disadvantaged. Diseases that are unheard of nowadays were rampant, and there was no NHS. Wages were poor, as was the average diet. As for food banks, they probably would have killed for one, Life was hard for the average family. The hardships you talk about nowadays would be laughable to them, and, having been born just after WW2, they are laughable to me.
And was post WW2 Britain any better? No. After the First World War ended in 1918, David Lloyd George’s speech addressed the poor housing conditions by promising “There are millions of men who will come back. Let us make this land fit for such men to live in” It didn't come to pass, plus food shortages, low wages and high unemployment followed. I guess the Tories learned their lesson. No such speech was given in 1945, just as well. Conditions still hadn't changed. Many people lived in appalling conditions, plus the housing shortage due to bombing added to the problem. Many came home to no home at all. When I was a teenager Liverpool was still littered with bomb sites.
Is it any coincidence that in Wilson’s 1975 referendum, when the majority of voters would have lived through war(s), and, like me, were born in the first wave of boomers, voted to remain in the EEC?
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Originally Posted by local
The itrony is I have been trying to explain to a family war veteran why the referendum vote hasn't been implemented.
"We fought for democracy what happened ? we might as well have let the Germans in"
"Don't these MP's work for us" ?
The Germans let themselves in.
Occupying Alderney and other Channel Islands.
Alderney the most Western Concentration Camp in Third Reich.
New evidence uncovered by technology advances believes the murder toll to be a lot more than the estimated 40,000.
Meanwhile Germany and the EU'S record on the treatment of asylum seekers and migrants is nothing to be proud of being part of.
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Originally Posted by seivad
I shake my head in despair every time I read jingoistic claptrap like this.
Yes, British and allied troops fought to stop the invasion of Britain, but the idea that Brexit is to recreate the Britain of their time is ridiculous. And believe me, you wouldn't want it.
You talk about hardship, you have no idea what hardship is. In 1939 the youngest of the men who joined up were born in 1921, my dad was one of them. They were born shortly after WW1, had lived through the Great Depression, and grew up in a country where the working class was seriously disadvantaged. Diseases that are unheard of nowadays were rampant, and there was no NHS. Wages were poor, as was the average diet. As for food banks, they probably would have killed for one, Life was hard for the average family. The hardships you talk about nowadays would be laughable to them, and, having been born just after WW2, they are laughable to me.
And was post WW2 Britain any better? No. After the First World War ended in 1918, David Lloyd George’s speech addressed the poor housing conditions by promising “There are millions of men who will come back. Let us make this land fit for such men to live in” It didn't come to pass, plus food shortages, low wages and high unemployment followed. I guess the Tories learned their lesson. No such speech was given in 1945, just as well. Conditions still hadn't changed. Many people lived in appalling conditions, plus the housing shortage due to bombing added to the problem. Many came home to no home at all. When I was a teenager Liverpool was still littered with bomb sites.
Is it any coincidence that in Wilson’s 1975 referendum, when the majority of voters would have lived through war(s), and, like me, were born in the first wave of boomers, voted to remain in the EEC?
How is democracy being respected and the people people getting what they voted for jingoistic .
Our wartime generation fought and worked for democracy and freedom.
Women died to get the vote so recently in our history.
How you spin the desire for freedom and democracy with a wish to go back to a time of hardship eludes I am sure most people.
Whatever you side of the in out referendum one thing is for certain,
however you spin the current remoaner arguments no version of staying in got a majority in a democratic vote.
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