Boris Plays a Blinder

[local]

Your right it certainly isn't perfect by a long way.
We need to get on though and holding out is damaging the country.

[silver fox]

Your right it certainly isn't perfect by a long way.
We need to get on though and holding out is damaging the country.

I feel Johnson is hoping Brexit " fatigue " will carry this deal through, certainly most of the country and I imagine many MPs are tired of the whole thing.

Apart from moving the EU border into the Irish Sea and moving many rights to a political "promise" rather than the current legislated position what has actually changed?

If anything this deal is even worse for the majority of people than the derided May deal.

[Little Londoner]

Can you explain to us "what the country voted for" and how you know?

Only all the rest of us know is that people voted for something just slightly unclear called "Leave".

I look forward to hearing from you.

Christ THREE years down the line and you don't know what was voted for in a TWO option referendum. No wonder the Country is in turmoil if seemingly like you millions do not understand what the TWO options meant. What a damning indictment on our Education system.

[silver fox]

Christ THREE years down the line and you don't know what was voted for in a TWO option referendum. No wonder the Country is in turmoil if seemingly like you millions do not understand what the TWO options meant. What a damning indictment on our Education system.

The realisation of what was voted for has still not entered the consciousness of too many, sure it seemed to be a great idea to give the Westminster bubble a good kicking and leave the EU, but the consequences don't appear to have much importance or been given much thought.

Even now this "new" Johnson deal gives away much more than it gains, but however it goes the majority certainly want it ended one way or the other.

Personally I am saddened by how far this country has fallen both nationally and internationally, thanks to our current government and the total farcical manner of Brexit.

[local]

Can you explain to us "what the country voted for" and how you know?

Only all the rest of us know is that people voted for something just slightly unclear called "Leave".

I look forward to hearing from you.

I am sorry genuinely if you don't understand the definition of the word leave but perhaps it is best explained by you thinking of the definition of the word remain,
If the vote outcome had been remain how would you feel if the government started withdrawing us bit by bit from the EU.


The binary choices put to us had a purpose in that it made it simple.

Yes the decision is simple but the process can be difficult just as in say buying a house the decision is simple but the process is more complicated.

But no right thinking person would think it mean't you weren't getting the whole house because complications arised.

[Alikado]

I am sorry genuinely if you don't understand the definition of the word leave but perhaps it is best explained by you thinking of the definition of the word remain,
If the vote outcome had been remain how would you feel if the government started withdrawing us bit by bit from the EU.


The binary choices put to us had a purpose in that it made it simple.

Yes the decision is simple but the process can be difficult just as in say buying a house the decision is simple but the process is more complicated.

But no right thinking person would think it mean't you weren't getting the whole house because complications arised.

I am totally clear what the Country Voted for, it was explained to everyone. To trigger Article 50 which was to enter a 2 year maximum negotiation period over the T's & C's , at no time did anyone suggest that we would or could leave without a deal.

[local]

I am totally clear what the Country Voted for, it was explained to everyone. To trigger Article 50 which was to enter a 2 year maximum negotiation period over the T's & C's , at no time did anyone suggest that we would or could leave without a deal.

You trip yourself up by the facts we did in fact vote for as near to no deal as we could have, the MP's after the article 50 confirmatory vote introduced more requirements and negotiation.

Who pressed for immediate invocation of article 50 ?

non other than Jeremy Corbyn well before any stipulations for the requirements he now has.

We were told unequivocally a vote to leave meant losing access to the single market. Politicians from David Cameron downwards said it would involve leaving the customs union.

We were told This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.







Johnsons bill is certainly a compromise on what people voted for.

[Toodles McGinty]

You trip yourself up by the facts we did in fact vote for as near to no deal as we could have, the MP's after the article 50 confirmatory vote introduced more requirements and negotiation.

Michael Gove:

Writing in the Daily Mail in March, Mr Gove had said: "Some may say that ditching (Theresa May's negotiated) deal will allow us to leave without any compromises.
"But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey.
"Leaving without a deal on March 29 would not honour that commitment. It would undoubtedly cause economic turbulence. Almost everyone in this debate accepts that."

[local]

Michael Gove:

Writing in the Daily Mail in March, Mr Gove had said: "Some may say that ditching (Theresa May's negotiated) deal will allow us to leave without any compromises.
"But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey.
"Leaving without a deal on March 29 would not honour that commitment. It would undoubtedly cause economic turbulence. Almost everyone in this debate accepts that."

Thais as near to "no deal" as we could have.

We were told unequivocally a vote to leave meant losing access to the single market. Politicians from David Cameron downwards said it would involve leaving the customs union.


Free trade without being under the control of the EU, nobody has suggested not trading with the EU even the proponents of a so called clean break want free trade deals asap.

[silver fox]

Thais as near to "no deal" as we could have.

We were told unequivocally a vote to leave meant losing access to the single market. Politicians from David Cameron downwards said it would involve leaving the customs union.


Free trade without being under the control of the EU, nobody has suggested not trading with the EU even the proponents of a so called clean break want free trade deals asap.

You will also then be aware that the lying leavers insisted that existing trade deals would simply transfer without a hitch, we now know that is a long, long way from reality.

[said]

Michael Gove:

Writing in the Daily Mail in March, Mr Gove had said: "Some may say that ditching (Theresa May's negotiated) deal will allow us to leave without any compromises.
"But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey.
"Leaving without a deal on March 29 would not honour that commitment. It would undoubtedly cause economic turbulence. Almost everyone in this debate accepts that."

Two days before the Referendum - Michael Gove told the BBC: "We'll be in a position I think to secure a better deal than the one that we have now."
Turkey was not even considered at the time of the Referendum - I would suggest that Gove's statement that you have given, was made much later.

[seivad]

Two days before the Referendum - Michael Gove told the BBC: "We'll be in a position I think to secure a better deal than the one that we have now."
Turkey was not even considered at the time of the Referendum - I would suggest that Gove's statement that you have given, was made much later.

The quote mentions May's negotiated deal, so Gove was obviously speaking in March 2019.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Tory-MPs.html

[said]

Boris Johnston has now written to EU to request an extension - sort of

[local]

You will also then be aware that the lying leavers insisted that existing trade deals would simply transfer without a hitch, we now know that is a long, long way from reality.

You keep perpetuating the lying mantra,
I suppose to convince yourself that's why you lost the intellectual argument but you must ask yourself why did the political experts the MP's overwhelmingly vote to trigger article 50 if they thought they had been lied to ?

As to trade deals we aren't free yet so you will have to keep that one on ice.

[silver fox]

You keep perpetuating the lying mantra,
I suppose to convince yourself that's why you lost the intellectual argument but you must ask yourself why did the political experts the MP's overwhelmingly vote to trigger article 50 if they thought they had been lied to ?

As to trade deals we aren't free yet so you will have to keep that one on ice.

OK tell me that we weren't told lies on very important aspects of Brexit, then just as an illustration of how stupid and totally uninformed our politicians were, read this, these comments were made and can be readily checked from many sources.

David Davis who was the head of negotiations with the EU, when it became clear that EU trade deals wouldn't simply transfer after Brexit, then came out with the sort of nonsense that would be funny if it wasn't so tragic, his "new" plan was to negotiate individual deals with individual countries within the EU, encompassing areas of importance to those countries.

For instance he thought that doing some sort of deal with Germany over cars and parts would bring a mutually beneficial agreement, with France the emphasis would be on wine and food, seemingly oblivious that the basis of EU trade deals was dealing with the EU as a whole.

You keep parotting this intellectual argument that I/we supposedly lost, I/we lost nothing, the settlement will come when/if we actually leave, if the economy and prosperity grow as leavers insist, then I will hold my hand up and say I lost, however I fear it is more likely to be "told you so" and we all lose.