£25m investment

[sandGroundZero]

The PNP post #59:

"Can't see how that solution is any less viable than a ground-level development. Ok, you lose a ground floor, so add another on top of each block.....Keep ground-level for trains to pass through, first floor of each block for residents car-parking, then ten floors of residential above - with roof-terraces plus a fancy revolving restaurant."

and Alikado post #60:

"Far cheaper to redevelop the station to create the interchange and build on Central 12"

Your alternative proposals are unimaginative, but certainly possible and perhaps better than some of the suggestions I've read. They do not show much ambition, considering it is the future prosperity of Southport that is in question.

Why such determination to keep the station where it is?

[Alikado]

The PNP post #59:

"Can't see how that solution is any less viable than a ground-level development. Ok, you lose a ground floor, so add another on top of each block.....Keep ground-level for trains to pass through, first floor of each block for residents car-parking, then ten floors of residential above - with roof-terraces plus a fancy revolving restaurant."

and Alikado post #60:

"Far cheaper to redevelop the station to create the interchange and build on Central 12"

Your alternative proposals are unimaginative, but certainly possible and perhaps better than some of the suggestions I've read. They do not show much ambition, considering it is the future prosperity of Southport that is in question.

Why such determination to keep the station where it is?

I don't see a future for the town centre without the Railway being close, the platforms need extending to accept the new trains so a good opportunity to incorporate an interchange, shop retail is a thing of the past and the food outlet market is saturated, the town centre must be shrunk, concentrate it on Lord St from Sainsburys to the Vincent, Eastbank St down to Wesley St, King St to Market St and Hoghton St to the Little Theatre.

[sandGroundZero]

For those who anticipate a more limited bricks and mortar retail presence in Southport and generally, Lord Street is the conundrum.

Alikado's post #62:

I don't see a future for the town centre without the Railway being close, the platforms need extending to accept the new trains so a good opportunity to incorporate an interchange, shop retail is a thing of the past and the food outlet market is saturated, the town centre must be shrunk, concentrate it on Lord St from Sainsburys to the Vincent, Eastbank St down to Wesley St, King St to Market St and Hoghton St to the Little Theatre.

We should, however, be contemplating the future of Southport as a whole. Like towns everywhere, Southport has sprawling housing estates encroaching on the surrounding agricultural land. Southport in particular is surrounded by low-lying (typically not more than a metre above sea level) hinterland. If climate change is not checked, then flooding will become increasingly problematic. We need to lead the way in greening our lifestyles, including how people move around the town and beyond.

Situated as it is by the Irish Sea, Southport gets comparatively little snowfall. Coping with adverse weather, notably snow is something fully autonomous vehicles currently have difficulties with. Southport could make itself a showcase for autonomous e-vehicles — buses and a taxi service — which would benefit the town in a couple of ways.

1. the vehicles a visitor attraction; and
2. introducing some 21st century technology.

Around the turn of the 19th century Southport was well served by railway and streetcars. It is not a coincidence that that was the town's heyday. Mass car ownership has wrecked towns. If we do not change our ways, cars (among other GHG emitters) may wreck us all.

[The PNP]

Around the turn of the 19th century Southport was well served by railway and streetcars. It is not a coincidence that that was the town's heyday. Mass car ownership has wrecked towns. If we do not change our ways, cars (among other GHG emitters) may wreck us all.

Completely agree......Imo, the reintroduction of 'streetcars' would certainly be an attraction. Particularly so, if a town-centre/promenade loop was created first, enabling a couple of reproduction horsedrawn trams to run on it. The authentic horsedrawn trams on Douglas seafront (IOM) are a must for any visitors bucketlist. If nothing else, a horse is certainly low-emission!

[sandGroundZero]

The PNPpost #64:

"Completely agree......Imo, the reintroduction of 'streetcars' would certainly be an attraction. Particularly so, if a town-centre/promenade loop was created first, enabling a couple of reproduction horsedrawn trams to run on it. The authentic horsedrawn trams on Douglas seafront (IOM) are a must for any visitors bucketlist. If nothing else, a horse is certainly low-emission!"

…pun intended?

In the context of the Town Deal £25 million, I doubt restoring horse-drawn trams would meet the criteria.
I'm still wondering why you objected to my plan for redeveloping the railway property in favour of a 10 storey high rise on stilts?

[The PNP]

A) In the context of the Town Deal £25 million, I doubt restoring horse-drawn trams would meet the criteria.

B) I'm still wondering why you objected to my plan for redeveloping the railway property in favour of a 10 storey high rise on stilts?

A) Fair comment. Perhaps a horsederawn omnibus or two would be more acceptable, as a budget alternative to laying actual track. Although a light-rail loop, if there was ever finance for it, could form the nucleus of a modern townwide light-rail electrified system.

B) Because redeveloping the station itself is completely unnecessary. Chapel St station has a fine glass roof, with plenty of life left in it. To reproduce the same area of glass cover at the back of town would cost a great deal of money. Also, there's no demand for more new retail space. Whereas introducing hundreds of additional residencies into the town centre, creates more footfall thus helping retailers to survive.

[sandGroundZero]

The PNP's post #66:

1. Fair comment. Perhaps a horsederawn omnibus or two would be more acceptable, as a budget alternative to laying actual track. Although a light-rail loop, if there was ever finance for it, could form the nucleus of a modern townwide light-rail electrified system.
2. Because redeveloping the station itself is completely unnecessary. Chapel St station has a fine glass roof, with plenty of life left in it. To reproduce the same area of glass cover at the back of town would cost a great deal of money. Also, there's no demand for more new retail space. Whereas introducing hundreds of additional residencies into the town centre, creates more footfall thus helping retailers to survive.

I am trying to understand what you would propose for Southport in the context of this Town Deal £25 million.

(Prospectus) 2.28 The Town Investment Plan should set out investment priorities that could drive economic growth, supported by clear evidence and targeting investment into the economic infrastructure listed around the objective of the fund, as well as making full use of existing powers, particularly in planning.

This is Southport's shot at receiving up to £25 million in public funding to kick start additional private investment. Light rail systems are passé and in any case, too expensive to be viable in a town the size of Southport. Presumably, a horse-drawn tram would not pay its way, or we'd have it already. Be serious.

As for your comments about the station, you say it is unnecessary; I beg to differ. It is not an attractive space. (Rail passenger platforms tend to be utilitarian.) What is worse though, it takes up too much valuable space. Of course it is true to say redevelopment requires large expenditure. But if it generates economic activity and future prosperity, then it is money well spent.

You've written: "Also, there's no demand for more new retail space." True. Which is why I do not include retail in my plan; nor come to that, more hospitality or leisure floorspace. Southport needs to diversify away from those activities and it needs to promote alternative wealth-creating enterprises of a sort that pay better wages and retain and attract bright, young people.

£25 million won't cover the necessary investment, but it could induce investment by creating the vision for Southport that investors can believe in. Ideally, much of the current property bounded by London St, Chapel St and Tulketh St is ripe for redevelopment. The visitor economy should be concentrated in Lord Street, the Promenade and the sea-front. More households adjacent to this district will support businesses through the ups and downs of the visitor economy; (that much at least, we seem to agree on).

[sandGroundZero]

Alikado's post #60:

"Far cheaper to redevelop the station to create the interchange and build on Central 12"

While it is true that simply redeveloping Central 12 is "cheaper". However, compared with redeveloping the station and railway property including an alternative 'cross town' route and transit hub, plus perhaps redeveloping Tulketh St. and more is a different proposition altogether!

This thread is about a potential £25 million contribution from central government. That Town Deal Fund comes with conditions. You can download the Town Deal Prospectus to get some insight into the process and requirements.

Building some new housing where Central 12 now stands might qualify for some of that £25 million. But, it is not a particularly ambitious plan for Southport; is it?

[sandGroundZero]

Since 27 February when Sefton's in-house portal announced:

Residents to have their say on Southport Town Deal

…the coronoavirus containment news and restrictions have overtaken all else.

The the MY Town Southport web page sponsored by the Ministry of Housing Communities and Local Government lists over 40 suggestions by local individuals.

I wonder whether now, in the midst of coronavirus restrictions, some of those people will have new or amended suggestions to offer? The past three or four weeks seem to have had a significant impact. Perceptions of what is best for our community may well have changed.

[Alikado]

One thing that is certain is when all this virus stuff has gone and it won't be any time soon there will be even less on the High St. Many small traders will decide not to reopen.

[sandGroundZero]

Alikado's post #70:

"One thing that is certain is when all this virus stuff has gone and it won't be any time soon there will be even less on the High St. Many small traders will decide not to reopen."

Why do you suppose that is? It is these businesses that are supposed to give a town its distinctiveness; is it not? If not these, then what?

[Alikado]

Alikado's post #70:

"One thing that is certain is when all this virus stuff has gone and it won't be any time soon there will be even less on the High St. Many small traders will decide not to reopen."

Why do you suppose that is? It is these businesses that are supposed to give a town its distinctiveness; is it not? If not these, then what?

Many who are struggling which many are will be another 6 months / 12 months older and think why bother.

[sandGroundZero]

Referring to post #72, it is true that operating a small business is fraught with obstacles. On the other hand, people keep on doing it. It must have some compensating attractions.

[Alikado]

Referring to post #72, it is true that operating a small business is fraught with obstacles. On the other hand, people keep on doing it. It must have some compensating attractions.

There is always a tipping point / breaking point.

[sandGroundZero]

Since 27 February when Sefton's in-house portal announced:

Residents to have their say on Southport Town Deal

…the coronoavirus containment news and restrictions have overtaken all else.
The the MY Town Southport web page sponsored by the Ministry of Housing Communities and Local Government lists over 40 suggestions by local individuals, suggested before the extent of disruption was known.

Ice rink had multiple advocates; as did variations on transport links, Victorian heritage and alternative uses for vacant retail floor space. It seems a long time ago.