Originally Posted by dav

I do care for what happens after they are born - which is why I want something better than the woeful NHS. It kills too many patients and badly serves many more. Moreover it does it expensively. Mind you, I suppose you being a fan of killing the innocent...

So explain how the private sector would do it better, cheaper and make a profit....

Originally Posted by dav

Funny that more of them vote for the DUP than any other party then - and at the most recent election with an increased number of votes. (Ah, democracy. What a fine thing!)

The Province of Ulster contains the Counties of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan in addition to six counties of Northern Ireland. At partition they were excluded from N Ireland as the State would have had a Catholic majority. This was a blatant act of gerrymandering to ensure the Protestant ascendancy. Thee are still significant areas in N Ireland such as Fermanagh, South Tyrone and West Derry that have Catholic majorities which were included to make the State economically viable and give the Protestants someone to oppress.

If you are so concerned about Self Determination for the Northern Irish people you would accept that these areas should be allowed a vote on joining the Republic.

If you must go round having opinions it would be really helpful if you knew what you were talking about.

Originally Posted by dav

You may do, but you are a True Believer in that sad religio-tribal sense (I mean, come on, Trott - celebrating Trotsky, someone responsible for so much slaughter isn't big or clever).

The rest of us, more rooted in reality, vote in the hope that the politician or party we choose at a particular election will at least address one or two issues we care about. We also look at the dreadful record of particular parties and politicians and give them a wide berth. Your current love interest is one such person of disrepute.

Still waiting to hear what the "one or two issues" you care about are. Can I suggest they are "your" and "self".

Originally Posted by dav

Ever tried asking the people who live in that "corner" what they want? I don't suppose that matters... Self determination is a marvellous thing everywhere in the world, apparently, except for on our doorstep. Presumably you'd like them to be forceably converted too?

Given that many of those that live in that corner are descended from the invading British then most of that section of the population would no doubt prefer that corner to remain as part of the UK. The ones that call themselves British despite Northern Ireland not and never being part of Great Britain.

If I moved to, let's say, Bolivia could I credibly expect the part of Bolivia in which I lived to be considered part of the UK just because I wanted it to?

The people of that corner also voted to remain in the EU but they aren't going to be allowed to self determine that are they?

I have no desire for anyone for be forcibly converted. I presume you're talking about religion. People of all religions and denominations live in both Ireland and the UK. Why would there be forcible conversions?

Originally Posted by Polly Trott

So explain how the private sector would do it better, cheaper and make a profit....

Why do you assume it has to be only the private sector? There are better performing health services in many European countries that are either wholly state funded or part of a mixed economy. The leftist nutters here in the UK can't see beyond NHS or nothing.

Originally Posted by Polly Trott

The Province of Ulster contains the Counties of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan in addition to six counties of Northern Ireland. At partition they were excluded from N Ireland as the State would have had a Catholic majority. This was a blatant act of gerrymandering to ensure the Protestant ascendancy. Thee are still significant areas in N Ireland such as Fermanagh, South Tyrone and West Derry that have Catholic majorities which were included to make the State economically viable and give the Protestants someone to oppress.

If you are so concerned about Self Determination for the Northern Irish people you would accept that these areas should be allowed a vote on joining the Republic.

If you must go round having opinions it would be really helpful if you knew what you were talking about.

I thought we were discussing how things are rather than how you would like them to be. Meanwhile, in the land of make believe...

Originally Posted by Polly Trott

Still waiting to hear what the "one or two issues" you care about are. Can I suggest they are "your" and "self".

You can suggest anything you like provided you don't assume it's any of your business how and why I voted in any election. As explained further up the thread my particular concerns may change at each election and I may vote tactically if that will secure the best chance of one of my issues being addressed. The most important thing at the last election was Brexit, of course. We may still get stitched up on that one, of course, but the Tories were and remain the best bet - of a bad bunch - for delivering it.

Originally Posted by dav

Why do you assume it has to be only the private sector? There are better performing health services in many European countries that are either wholly state funded or part of a mixed economy. The leftist nutters here in the UK can't see beyond NHS or nothing.

So are you suggesting we get rid of the NHS and replace it with another wholly state funded health service? How is that an efficient use of resources?

A mixed economy will involve profit making organisations. I ask again how will the private sector do it better, cheaper and make a profit?

Originally Posted by dav

I thought we were discussing how things are rather than how you would like them to be. Meanwhile, in the land of make believe...

So you think I wanted an artificial state that assured Protestant ascendancy and guaranteed the oppression of Catholics to be created?? Sorry to say but that is how it is not how I want it to be.

This is why that "fine thing" democracy does not function in NI.

Originally Posted by dav

You can suggest anything you like provided you don't assume it's any of your business how and why I voted in any election. As explained further up the thread my particular concerns may change at each election and I may vote tactically if that will secure the best chance of one of my issues being addressed. The most important thing at the last election was Brexit, of course. We may still get stitched up on that one, of course, but the Tories were and remain the best bet - of a bad bunch - for delivering it.

Why do you insist on engaging in political discussion when you rarely say what it is you think and never why you think it? We have established you don't want to be in the EU. Is this because you believe EU membership makes it impossible for any future British Government to introduce a truly Socialist programme of reform or is it because you hate foreigners? Personally I can't think of any other reason why someone would want to leave the EU.

Originally Posted by Polly Trott

Personally I can't think of any other reason why someone would want to leave the EU.

Then you must try harder my dear.

Originally Posted by Polly Trott

Why do you insist on engaging in political discussion when you rarely say what it is you think and never why you think it?

Because it is a fun pastime to poke the cage of the Knuckle-dragging Neanderthal Left. I do so on my own terms, not yours, sweetheart.

Originally Posted by Polly Trott

So are you suggesting we get rid of the NHS and replace it with another wholly state funded health service? How is that an efficient use of resources?

A mixed economy will involve profit making organisations. I ask again how will the private sector do it better, cheaper and make a profit?

(1) As the current NHS has been shown to work very badly, it makes sense to replace it with something that works better. The NHS-as-religion types have squealed at every hint of reform of the current system and the self-interested employees have stymied it at every turn which is why it remains so crap by international measures.

(2) The private sector is better at providing what its customers want. That's how it makes a profit. A mix of private and public can also work provided you don't let the woeful current administrators write the contracts full of holes and without penalties for missed targets. I have written successful contracts for the privatisation of public sector services (but not in the NHS) and the service improved and was cheaper. It takes someone who knows what he or she is doing.

Originally Posted by dav

(1) As the current NHS has been shown to work very badly, it makes sense to replace it with something that works better. The NHS-as-religion types have squealed at every hint of reform of the current system and the self-interested employees have stymied it at every turn which is why it remains so crap by international measures.

(2) The private sector is better at providing what its customers want. That's how it makes a profit. A mix of private and public can also work provided you don't let the woeful current administrators write the contracts full of holes and without penalties for missed targets. I have written successful contracts for the privatisation of public sector services (but not in the NHS) and the service improved and was cheaper. It takes someone who knows what he or she is doing.

The private sector is better at providing customers who can afford it with what they want and, above all, making a profit. A nationalised health service is about providing everybody with what they need and there is no room for the profit motive in this.

You've excelled yourself by describing hard pressed, hard working nhs employees who are forced to rely on foodbanks as self serving while you boast of helping to sell off our public sector to for-profit companies. The only way you could have saved money is by cutting staff, wages or sacrificing quality.

Originally Posted by dav

Then you must try harder my dear.

No - can't think of any others - it can only be that you hate foreigners...along with Catholics, LGBT+ people, women and nurses.