What is the point of the 20 limit?

[carliol]

Of course you can have variable speed limits, the motorways are full of them. Also many schools have a system of 20MPH “when lights are flashing”, which just happen to be at school starting and finishing times.

Not many schools on motorways. And confining the discussion to our local area, I haven't seen any of these "20MPH “when lights are flashing”, but perhaps there are some. It seems simpler, and cheaper, just to have a permanent 20 limit.

Of course this will inconvenience those people who want to drive at whatever speed they wish, but you can't please all of the people .......

[silver fox]

Not many schools on motorways. And confining the discussion to our local area, I haven't seen any of these "20MPH “when lights are flashing”, but perhaps there are some. It seems simpler, and cheaper, just to have a permanent 20 limit.

Of course this will inconvenience those people who want to drive at whatever speed they wish, but you can't please all of the people .......

There are plenty about, not sure of any in Southport, but where I have seen them the limit accompanied by the flashing lights are usually complied with, however blanket 20 mph limits at all times of the day tend to be largely ignored, most drivers do drive according to the road, conditions, traffic on the road etc, never seen drivers blasting past a school or school crossings at start at finish times, but certain people believe that anything above walking pace is speeding.

[Little Londoner]

Of course this will inconvenience those people who want to drive at whatever speed they wish, but you can't please all of the people .......

You don't half talk some rubbish, I have retired now but used to be going to work or coming home from work at 2/3/4/5 a.m. so you expect someone to drive at 20 mph on an EMPTY road just because having driven for 40+ years at 30 on the same roads without accident I suddenly become a danger if I am doing 25-30.
I have already posted this but it obviously passed through without stopping, when the RESIDENTS of roads which are 20 mph don't acknowledge it then WHY should anyone else. After all taxis/buses/Police cars don't seem to bother about it either and I have not heard of ONE prosecution for exceeding the 20 limit.
Going back to early mornings the biggest danger was Royal Mail personnel riding their bikes to work without lights.

One thing you have impressed me with is your observation that there are no schools on Motorways. With brains like that YOU MUST be related to the wannabe cyclist.

[carliol]

I have done a little research on this and the cost of installing one pair of new school flashing lights is upwards of £5000, and that was a year 2011 figure. Quite a consideration for local government budgets. Some may say that it would be worth it for safety reasons, but that is another debate.

So back to the original point (or whether there is a point) of having these 20 mph limits. Well they are a fact of life now and, sorry to repeat this, they do reduce average speeds, which may benefit all road users and pedestrians.

[The PNP]

A) Dad went to the back of his truck and found a young cyclist had run into the back and was dead, the driver behind saw it all happen and said the young rider, going at a fair speed had followed the kerbs at the side of the road and ridden into the truck, that young man died from lack of awareness, speed of vehicles had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

B) Sure we know your ideas of overuse, you've stated them often enough, just for you, no-one is going to go to the expense of owning a car, then catch a bus to go into town, no-one is going to walk or cycle if the weather is foul and a car is sat in the drive, parking difficulties are the main deterrent to using the car, plus of course make parking too difficult and people go elsewhere.

A) Freak accidents happen....and not only to cyclists. It wouldn't be the first time that a motorist drove straight into a skip/parked vehicle in broad daylight, also through lack of awareness.

B) True enough. Yet there was little wrong with the weather today, as I found whilst on my bike. Parked it right against the front of Aldi, no probs. Did however overhear a phone conversation whilst inside, where a woman asked the other party: 'are you on the school run?'. Seems to me, a number of the car-trips in town today could have been done on a bike. E.g. to escort the kids home via quiet 20mph roads whilst getting some fresh air/exercise.

[silver fox]

A) Freak accidents happen....and not only to cyclists. It wouldn't be the first time that a motorist drove straight into a skip/parked vehicle in broad daylight, also through lack of awareness.

B) True enough. Yet there was little wrong with the weather today, as I found whilst on my bike. Parked it right against the front of Aldi, no probs. Did however overhear a phone conversation whilst inside, where a woman asked the other party: 'are you on the school run?'. Seems to me, a number of the car-trips in town today could have been done on a bike. E.g. to escort the kids home via quiet 20mph roads whilst getting some fresh air/exercise.

Not everyone lives close to the school, plus thankfully the decision as to transport and travel isn't your's to make.

[carliol]

You don't half talk some rubbish, I have retired now but used to be going to work or coming home from work at 2/3/4/5 a.m. so you expect someone to drive at 20 mph on an EMPTY road just because having driven for 40+ years at 30 on the same roads without accident I suddenly become a danger if I am doing 25-30.
I have already posted this but it obviously passed through without stopping, when the RESIDENTS of roads which are 20 mph don't acknowledge it then WHY should anyone else. After all taxis/buses/Police cars don't seem to bother about it either and I have not heard of ONE prosecution for exceeding the 20 limit.
Going back to early mornings the biggest danger was Royal Mail personnel riding their bikes to work without lights.

One thing you have impressed me with is your observation that there are no schools on Motorways. With brains like that YOU MUST be related to the wannabe cyclist.

Oh dear, the 'schools on motorways' observation was ironic. Look up that word in a dictionary or similar.

Of course you are not going to be a danger doing 25 -30 in a 20 zone during quiet periods, and of course there will be very few prosecutions. My point is that it will reduce average speeds. Look up the word average also and widen the situation to the population as a whole without fixating on your own self-interest.

[Alikado]

School start and finish times. That is why it's needed. You can't have limits varying according to the time of day

Coming out of Preston as you hit the dual carriageway it is 40mph but at school times it is 30mph

[The PNP]

Not everyone lives close to the school, plus thankfully the decision as to transport and travel isn't your's to make.

I'd expect the majority of pupils to live within 3 miles of their school, but yes there will always be some exceptions.

Point is, all these smart-a$$ed motorists who blast along 20mph roads at significantly higher speeds, are spoiling it for people who otherwise might try out their school-runs etc on a bike..........Main reason given for sticking with the car, they don't feel safe due traffic.
No wonder there's so many fat unfit parents shipping fat unfit kids about!

[silver fox]

I'd expect the majority of pupils to live within 3 miles of their school, but yes there will always be some exceptions.

Point is, all these smart-a$$ed motorists who blast along 20mph roads at significantly higher speeds, are spoiling it for people who otherwise might try out their school-runs etc on a bike..........Main reason given for sticking with the car, they don't feel safe due traffic.
No wonder there's so many fat unfit parents shipping fat unfit kids about!

If you think that parents are going to walk a 6 mile round trip twice a day, you are totally of your trolley and even on a bike only if they have nothing else much to do, many parents are heading for work after dropping children off which or may not be in the same area.

Your dreaming of a long gone era when most people spent almost their entire lives in the same locality, reliant on local work and local services.

Just for you in my secondary school days I did a 3 mile run on the bike then a 1/2 hour bus ride with obviously the repeat trip coming home, by then I was travelling on my own, but frankly even in those bygone days most secondary school pupils were picked by a school bus close to home, your dream time when most walked or cycled everywhere is just that a dream.

Sure there were a lot less vehicles on the road, but even then no-one was soft enough to walk or cycle when transport was available, the only reason public transport particularly buses were used was simply because most people didn't have cars.

[The PNP]

If you think that parents are going to walk a 6 mile round trip twice a day, you are totally of your trolley and even on a bike only if they have nothing else much to do, many parents are heading for work after dropping children off which or may not be in the same area......Your dreaming of a long gone era when most people spent almost their entire lives in the same locality, reliant on local work and local services.

There's some truth in that.....Back in the day, you were judged (at least in part) by how you travelled. A 'poor' man walked, a little better off and he took the (tram)car, (omni)bus or had a bike. A thrifty tradesman might save enough for a motorbike/sidecar....Only the professional classes and above actually owned and drove their own car.

Despite fact more are now walking/jogging or cycling for health reasons and the environment, a certain archaic sense of 'snobbery' still exists at the back of many British minds. Being seen in a car (and the more expensive the better) had a 'pose' value, which some obviously still cling to.

[justbecause]

I'd expect the majority of pupils to live within 3 miles of their school, but yes there will always be some exceptions.

Point is, all these smart-a$$ed motorists who blast along 20mph roads at significantly higher speeds, are spoiling it for people who otherwise might try out their school-runs etc on a bike..........Main reason given for sticking with the car, they don't feel safe due traffic.
No wonder there's so many fat unfit parents shipping fat unfit kids about!

You’re like a stuck record. I’m surprised you don’t come come to grief when you’re out cycling and wearing those blinkers that you never seem to take off.

[The PNP]

You’re like a stuck record. I’m surprised you don’t come come to grief when you’re out cycling and wearing those blinkers that you never seem to take off.

Very funny.....The point is, 20mph limits are there to create safer streets. Safer not only for people in motor vehicles, but for the rest of us too i.e. pedestrians, cyclists, horseback riders, kids, the aged, etc.

[justbecause]

Very funny.....The point is, 20mph limits are there to create safer streets. Safer not only for people in motor vehicles, but for the rest of us too i.e. pedestrians, cyclists, horseback riders, kids, the aged, etc.

But aren’t the 30mph limits for exactly the purpose, those 30 limits that you have often admitted to exceeding, when you deem it safe and appropriate. It seems there’s some Politician in you, you know, one set of rules for us, another set for you.

[carliol]

Very funny.....The point is, 20mph limits are there to create safer streets. Safer not only for people in motor vehicles, but for the rest of us too i.e. pedestrians, cyclists, horseback riders, kids, the aged, etc.

Common sense. I support that.