Volunteers Needed for Viking Rediscover the Legend Exhibition Page not found

[rolling-thunder]

I just tried to access the story
Volunteers Needed for Viking: Rediscover the Legend Exhibition but I can't open it. All i'm getting is 404 page not found. Anyone else having problem?

[seivad]

The colon and exclamation mark in the thread title were flagged by the damned Sucuri firewall, so it couldn't be opened. I've now edited them out of the title.

Styx has kindly found you the link on the thread below

https://www.qlocal.co.uk/southport/fo..._-55028815.htm

[rolling-thunder]

I thought the Atkinson was supposed to be free? Makes more sense at £12 for a family ticket.

[said]

I thought the Atkinson was supposed to be free? Makes more sense at £12 for a family ticket.

The Atkinson is free - it is the Viking artefacts you pay to see. Become a Volunteer and you would see them for nothing. I won't be going - I was dragged all over the UK in all weathers, accompanying someone who was doing an in depth study of these historical people - it was not exactly a vacation I can assure you.

[rolling-thunder]

I might be taking part in some form at some point but I wanted to take the kids.

[said]

I might be taking part in some form at some point but I wanted to take the kids.

So, dress them up as Vikings and tell them not to run riot! You could all be volunteers perhaps. I do not like 'per person' charges because it means many families are excluded. Instead of £4 per person the Atkiinson should be charging £6 per family which would include either a couple or a family of any size.

[rolling-thunder]

As I say, I may be taking part in some fashion. I'm used to teaching.

[Smudge1]

I cant even access my own pics of my own child because of this crap.
I have asked for my pic thread to be deleted and is the reason I do not post on here any more.
1. My request to remove my thread of family pics I can not access is still there.
2. I have reported this to my colleques in IT investergations who said stay clear..?

Just saying.

PS I'm talking about the whole charactors used in post bollocks, not Vikings...LOL

[seivad]

I cant even access my own pics of my own child because of this crap.
I have asked for my pic thread to be deleted and is the reason I do not post on here any more.
1. My request to remove my thread of family pics I can not access is still there.
2. I have reported this to my colleques in IT investergations who said stay clear..?

Just saying.

PS I'm talking about the whole charactors used in post bollocks, not Vikings...LOL

I've not heard about this before. If you PM me a link to the thread you're talking about, I'll be happy to delete it for you.

[said]

As I say, I may be taking part in some fashion. I'm used to teaching.

Have you promoted yourself to Viking Royalty? The outfit is not bad, it would pass among the unwary, but Vikings did not really wear chain mail, did not wear helmets in general and did not carry spears. But otherwise, pretty good.

[rolling-thunder]

Have you promoted yourself to Viking Royalty? The outfit is not bad, it would pass among the unwary, but Vikings did not really wear chain mail, did not wear helmets in general and did not carry spears. But otherwise, pretty good.

Lol, where do I begin. I taught key stage 2 history about the Vikings for 5 years based on my knowledge of Vikings Weapons & Warfare. In this Country there haven't been any finds of Viking helmets but one specific Helmet was found in Gjermundbu in Norway {https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjermundbu_helmet} which is directly attributable to the Norse, along with mail. Apart from those fragmentary finds we have Manuscripts with drawings. Anglo Saxon descriptions of Viking Pirates, stone carvings & Laws written down by the Norse that stipulated how many mail shirts & helmets were to be carried by a ships crew. I have lectured in Museums, Teacher Training colleges & for small groups. So yes, Vikings did have Helmets & Mail.
The picture was taken inside York Minster celebrating a thousand years of History in 2004 with the Coronation of Erik Bloodaxe. I led a group of 35 Armed warriors up the Aisle through the great North Doors the first such event for 500 years {so best posh frock}.
Yes my kit isn't perfect but hand spun wools costs something like £75/metre, not something I was willing to buy for a one off event. As an extra comment regarding Wargear & fashion from the Viking period. The Norse were as fashionable as anyone else in Europe & barring a few minor cultural differences they dressed the same in peace or War. By the time of the last "Viking invasion in 1263 in Largs Scotland you couldn't tell a Viking from a Scot or English Knight. They dressed the same & had the same tactics of War.
Sorry for the long winded post, honestly I held back

[said]

Lol, where do I begin. I taught key stage 2 history about the Vikings for 5 years based on my knowledge of Vikings Weapons & Warfare. In this Country there haven't been any finds of Viking helmets but one specific Helmet was found in Gjermundbu in Norway {https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjermundbu_helmet} which is directly attributable to the Norse, along with mail. Apart from those fragmentary finds we have Manuscripts with drawings. Anglo Saxon descriptions of Viking Pirates, stone carvings & Laws written down by the Norse that stipulated how many mail shirts & helmets were to be carried by a ships crew. I have lectured in Museums, Teacher Training colleges & for small groups. So yes, Vikings did have Helmets & Mail.
The picture was taken inside York Minster celebrating a thousand years of History in 2004 with the Coronation of Erik Bloodaxe. I led a group of 35 Armed warriors up the Aisle through the great North Doors the first such event for 500 years {so best posh frock}.
Yes my kit isn't perfect but hand spun wools costs something like £75/metre, not something I was willing to buy for a one off event. As an extra comment regarding Wargear & fashion from the Viking period. The Norse were as fashionable as anyone else in Europe & barring a few minor cultural differences they dressed the same in peace or War. By the time of the last "Viking invasion in 1263 in Largs Scotland you couldn't tell a Viking from a Scot or English Knight. They dressed the same & had the same tactics of War.
Sorry for the long winded post, honestly I held back

So, war it is! I assume that you are referring to the Viking Sagas? The Sagas are not completely factual, much of it is myths. The only Vikings who could write were the more educated and well off, one has to be very wary about picking out the details from these. The more wealthy Vikings or chieftains were the only ones known to wear helmets. Chain mail used in this country was probably robbed from Europe. Armour in the UK was used - but only by nobility in the medieval period - the earlier Vikings wore padded leather. The Vikings travelled on long boats, they travelled light and attacked fast. The weapons and clothing they wore were for this purpose.

Don't hold back, it is very interesting to discuss this topic.

[rolling-thunder]

So, war it is! I assume that you are referring to the Viking Sagas? The Sagas are not completely factual, much of it is myths. The only Vikings who could write were the more educated and well off, one has to be very wary about picking out the details from these. The more wealthy Vikings or chieftains were the only ones known to wear helmets. Chain mail used in this country was probably robbed from Europe. Armour in the UK was used - but only by nobility in the medieval period - the earlier Vikings wore padded leather. The Vikings travelled on long boats, they travelled light and attacked fast. The weapons and clothing they wore were for this purpose.

Don't hold back, it is very interesting to discuss this topic.

While it is true only the wealthier Norse could afford to commission a mail shirt to be made other classes could certainly afford to buy mail shirts or were gifted them. Huscarls would be equipt by their Lord. By the year 1066 London was reputed to have upwards of 20,000 mail shirts kept in storage {word of mouth information, i'm still waiting for a source on that information} I definitely avoided reference to the Sagas & referred to Manuscript because the Norse could read & write. If you want a source of written evidence, the Rus of Russia wrote letters on Birch bark as an example. Hundreds of thousands{if not millions} of letters & notes have been found in Russia {Swedes went East & were known as the Rus. Even referred to as the Rus by Ibn Fadlan who noted their customs, dress & Funerary rights}.
Anyway back to Europe & specifically England. We have written references to Mail shirts, helms & swords being worn. Metal working & production in the country with forges being found at Repton.
As a comment on the Viking Long Boats & lightening raids. They were referred to as surprise attacks. There would have been nothing fast about them by our standards. Having rowed more than a few longships {my society owns 5 Longships & 2 smaller vessels} I can tell you jumping out of a beached vessel isn't particularly easy when loaded with weapons {we weren't allowed to wear mail or helm for modern health and safety reasons}. So Viking attacks were surprise attacks were they would come to trade is every one was awake, or raid if the were asleep or unprepared. The Saxons of this country had a Fyrd system. A sort of Militia where the people were expected to provide service in times of war. So your average Saxon was able to defend themselves quite adequately using Spear & Shield.
As for the padded caps, there's no proof, not even on manuscripts during the Viking age. That brings me to Gambersons {padded jack worn under mail} there's no evidence during the Viking period. There was before & after the Viking period but not during. It seems highly unlikely that they would forget something so simple when they were still using Roman tactics like the Shield wall. It would seem that they would wear them, it makes common sense but there's no evidence to support it. We wear them for health & safety reasons.
As the period progresses & mail shirts become longer to protect the legs{ mail used on horseback was long to protect the legs, infantry adopted it} , a Coif was worn on the head. Padded to go under the mail hood & then the helmet went on top of that. If you have ever worn mail without padding you will know mail can bruise and even break the skin when struck. My information is researched and Peer approved by scholars & Archaeologists. We don't just dress up & hit each other with Iron bars.

[Derek H]

Just for interest, I would ask those who know what they mean by the Viking Sagas. It's an expression I have never heard here in Scandinavia. Are you referring to Snorre's Sagas (Sturlason)? I'm interested because my son is currently planning to produce a film about King Olaf (later St Olaf), and I'm been given the task of translating the rough manuscript. The film is intended to been shown world wide.

[said]

While it is true only the wealthier Norse could afford to commission a mail shirt to be made other classes could certainly afford to buy mail shirts or were gifted them. Huscarls would be equipt by their Lord. By the year 1066 London was reputed to have upwards of 20,000 mail shirts kept in storage {word of mouth information, i'm still waiting for a source on that information} I definitely avoided reference to the Sagas & referred to Manuscript because the Norse could read & write. If you want a source of written evidence, the Rus of Russia wrote letters on Birch bark as an example. Hundreds of thousands{if not millions} of letters & notes have been found in Russia {Swedes went East & were known as the Rus. Even referred to as the Rus by Ibn Fadlan who noted their customs, dress & Funerary rights}.
Anyway back to Europe & specifically England. We have written references to Mail shirts, helms & swords being worn. Metal working & production in the country with forges being found at Repton.
As a comment on the Viking Long Boats & lightening raids. They were referred to as surprise attacks. There would have been nothing fast about them by our standards. Having rowed more than a few longships {my society owns 5 Longships & 2 smaller vessels} I can tell you jumping out of a beached vessel isn't particularly easy when loaded with weapons {we weren't allowed to wear mail or helm for modern health and safety reasons}. So Viking attacks were surprise attacks were they would come to trade is every one was awake, or raid if the were asleep or unprepared. The Saxons of this country had a Fyrd system. A sort of Militia where the people were expected to provide service in times of war. So your average Saxon was able to defend themselves quite adequately using Spear & Shield.
As for the padded caps, there's no proof, not even on manuscripts during the Viking age. That brings me to Gambersons {padded jack worn under mail} there's no evidence during the Viking period. There was before & after the Viking period but not during. It seems highly unlikely that they would forget something so simple when they were still using Roman tactics like the Shield wall. It would seem that they would wear them, it makes common sense but there's no evidence to support it. We wear them for health & safety reasons.
As the period progresses & mail shirts become longer to protect the legs{ mail used on horseback was long to protect the legs, infantry adopted it} , a Coif was worn on the head. Padded to go under the mail hood & then the helmet went on top of that. If you have ever worn mail without padding you will know mail can bruise and even break the skin when struck. My information is researched and Peer approved by scholars & Archaeologists. We don't just dress up & hit each other with Iron bars.

You seem unable to decide what period you wish to represent. You start off by discussing the year 1066 - this is the Early Medieval period i.e post Viking Age. The Saxons were far more developed than the Vikings in terms of weaponry and metal working. It was the period when Viking sailing craft had transformed to that resembling the Medieval Cog as they, the Scandinavians, moved into an era when battles were fought more on land than via the sea.

In the Viking Age - i.e between the 8th and 11th Century, iron working was poorly understood. Weapons were rare and treasured because of their rarity. They were commonly re-worked and repaired and passed down through families as they were hard to replace. Chain mail was just as rare because the skill involved in crafting it and was restricted to the upper classes. The fact that iron working was a rare skill is attested to in the Early boat building techniques - wooden nails were used as opposed to metal, which only came in towards the end of the era.

Most Viking warriors were farmers and village men who were called to battle by the Chieftain. They were simple men who could afford only the basic equipment which was more often than not a form of Seax and very basic weaponry. Leather wear was the dress of the common warrior. Even in the later Norman period, the standard soldier wore mainly leather with again, only the nobility wearing chain and later plate. The raids on England were often not as violent as is commonly acclaimed. Vikings often settled in villages and became part of the native populations. They were often conscripted to fight on the behalf of English lords or the Irish Princes.

Leather does not preserve well upon burial, so is not found in large quantities in the archaeological record. But it was affordable and could be easily toughened to form a protective covering. It was a standard part of the basic soldiers kit far into the Norman period.

There is very little evidence of weaponry for the Viking period beyond the basics. The few images that exist are from burial grave stones and these are poor and very limited. The sagas were written by the educated and wealthy and were for entertainment. They detailed the life of the kings, gods and warriors and were highly embellished. They can not be taken as historically accurate text. You have to use them alongside the archaeological record to get anything worthwhile from them.

I have many friends in re-enactment groups from varying periods. They are to an extent historically accurate but are often influenced by romanticised ideals portrayed by the media. I get my sources from the journals, friends who are lecturers and a Phd student who has specialised in the Viking period in Britain and Ireland. The history of the Vikings is not as clear and defined as you make it out to be and the sources are still few and far between with Archaeology making up the bulk of the knowledge.