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  1. #1
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    Time to Re Nationalise the Railways

    The East Coast Mainline franchise has collapsed yet again, Southport to Manchester trains cancelled and severely disrupted again today, Northern are consistently proving they can't run a Railway. Should the decision be to just Nationalise the failing ones or Nationalise the lot?





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  3. #2
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    Yes - it should be like the French, Dutch and Gerrman railways which are run as state owned private companies. It works well, and those said companies make plenty of money for their shareholders (their governments) out of running our services.

    Those who object to nationalisation generally either do so because of ideological grounds (being free marketeers) or because of their memories of some truly terrible nationalised industries - BR, BL and the old BT for example. The problem with all those was that they were run very badly, not because they were state owned.

  4. #3
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    The Railways are a PUBLIC Service not a cash cow for idealogical Tories. They should NEVER have been privatised in the first place by Majors Morons.

    If there is one Tory voting half wit on here that can Justify why European Rail Passengers are travelling cheaply due to the profits THEIR State Railways receive from ownership of British Privatised Rail operators which are used to subsidise their own fares please explain before going out and topping yourself.

    As for Grayling he should be ashamed doing a job he hasn't got the first clue about.
    Moronic Ideology.

    I was reading the other day the average rise of dividends to shareholders of Privatised Companies/Utilities since the brain deads started selling off the family silver is over 60% not as bad as the rise in charges us plebs are FORCED to pay

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Londoner View Post
    The Railways are a PUBLIC Service not a cash cow for idealogical Tories. They should NEVER have been privatised in the first place by Majors Morons.

    If there is one Tory voting half wit on here that can Justify why European Rail Passengers are travelling cheaply due to the profits THEIR State Railways receive from ownership of British Privatised Rail operators which are used to subsidise their own fares please explain before going out and topping yourself.

    As for Grayling he should be ashamed doing a job he hasn't got the first clue about.
    Moronic Ideology.

    I was reading the other day the average rise of dividends to shareholders of Privatised Companies/Utilities since the brain deads started selling off the family silver is over 60% not as bad as the rise in charges us plebs are FORCED to pay
    I agree! Railways should be nationalised! There are far too many non-UK companies running OUR services and receiving HUGE grants from the Government for doing so. Previously, the Railways were poorly managed as it was done so by public service administrators. - There should be one UK company running the whole of the UK system - which would greatly reduce the number of legal and administrative people involved which would save on costs and provide a more efficient service. The company should be experienced in running rail services and should be that company's sole business, so that its interests would be in creating a highly profitable business without having to charge high fares.
    Under correct management, it is seen that the Government subsidies would be reduced and there would be far more accountability as opposed to the invisible deniability there is at present.

  6. #5
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    Good god, I agree with every word in one of Said's post.

  7. #6
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    theres most of the essential services should never have been privatised.gas electric water transport.but the biggest problem is these days is the lack of social responsibility for the fallout effects of the striving for profitability before all else.its headed for breakdown across the board unless some balance is restored,to this.unless something starts to get putting back ,those reaping off the populace ,are going to be in for shock once the pot runs dry!its nearer than they think!

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion102 View Post
    Good god, I agree with every word in one of Said's post.
    Worrying, isn't it?

    Rail, energy, water and most of all the National Health Service, which is being privatised chunk by chunk.

    We need these essential services to be run at a profit, but not to the detriment of the service users. Looking abroad, we can see these industries no longer need to be a clunky drain on the public purse. Rather they can be a shining example of efficiency, with a well paid work force too, in the right hands.

  9. #8
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    Meanwhile there is a whole load of thieving conning twisted private company workers in the lower tax paying bracket preying on consumers.

    Don't you fellow posters ever tune in to Watchdog?

    *said is an excepted exclusion*.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamble View Post
    Meanwhile there is a whole load of thieving conning twisted private company workers in the lower tax paying bracket preying on consumers.

    Don't you fellow posters ever tune in to Watchdog?

    *said is an excepted exclusion*.
    ??????

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion102 View Post
    ??????
    Give me a few words old bean?

  12. #11
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    Where they not privatized due to the fact they where so badly run and such disrepair in the first place?

    Rose tinted glasses come to mind.

    I'd love them to be state run WELL, but will that ever happen? No competition tends to lead to complacency and waste.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceam View Post
    Where they not privatized due to the fact they where so badly run and such disrepair in the first place?

    Rose tinted glasses come to mind.

    I'd love them to be state run WELL, but will that ever happen? No competition tends to lead to complacency and waste.
    Responsibility for litigation against the public purse too.

    People are more likely to pursue damages against a public company than private.

    Cost of NHS negligence claims has quadrupled to £1.6bn in a decade
    Soaring bill affects quality of care and increases financial pressure on trusts

    and going up...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-medical-legal

  14. #13
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    Vrigin and Merseyrail are much better than the universally terrible service under British Rail which was responsible for the privatisation. The tracks are still effectively in national ownership and it is lack of investment there that causes many of the delays. Things are far from perfect but they are still much better under most of the privatised rail companies than when the state had control.


    All the remoaners and Corbynites should also note that it is currently illegal to renationalise industries under EU rules. I'd love to know which other services they plan to cut in order to waste billions buying back companies for renationalisation. As idiotic as Sefton Council buying grotty run-down shopping centres with no expertise in running them and in a declining market.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dav View Post
    Vrigin and Merseyrail are much better than the universally terrible service under British Rail which was responsible for the privatisation. The tracks are still effectively in national ownership and it is lack of investment there that causes many of the delays. Things are far from perfect but they are still much better under most of the privatised rail companies than when the state had control.


    All the remoaners and Corbynites should also note that it is currently illegal to renationalise industries under EU rules. I'd love to know which other services they plan to cut in order to waste billions buying back companies for renationalisation. As idiotic as Sefton Council buying grotty run-down shopping centres with no expertise in running them and in a declining market.
    Firstly, nationalisation is not illegal in EU law. That was ironically the view of a corbynite professor at an ex polytechnic with the lowest rated law department in the UK. I'm not sure of the relevance of competition law in a system where inherently there is no competition. My options for my daily 2 hours on the train are limited to one and always have been.

    Myself and Said have pointed out that the problem with the old BR was that it was run as an extension of the public sector rather than as a state owned enterprise.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dav View Post
    Vrigin and Merseyrail are much better than the universally terrible service under British Rail which was responsible for the privatisation. The tracks are still effectively in national ownership and it is lack of investment there that causes many of the delays. Things are far from perfect but they are still much better under most of the privatised rail companies than when the state had control.


    All the remoaners and Corbynites should also note that it is currently illegal to renationalise industries under EU rules. I'd love to know which other services they plan to cut in order to waste billions buying back companies for renationalisation. As idiotic as Sefton Council buying grotty run-down shopping centres with no expertise in running them and in a declining market.
    It should also be remembered that technology has improved somewhat for rail services. There are now ticket machines and barriers which have cut down on the number of staff required.
    Overseas companies would not have invested in the UK Rail, if it meant losing money - they invested to make a profit! That said, the Railways are no more than any other business i.e. Provide a service that people pay to use. There was £9.3 billion received from fares to the Rail Services last year, an increase of almost 5% on the year before. In addition to that there is an almost equal amount received from Government Subsidies. From Government department figures the cost of running the Rail System is:
    " The total cost of operating the rail network for train operators franchised by Department for Transport (DfT) in the financial year ending 2015 was £10.5 billion, which is £0.2 billion higher than last year." So there appears to be an anomaly of around £8 billion??
    In addition to that, published in The Times, June 12 2017 - "The cost of running Britain’s railways has increased by more than £50 billion since the network was privatised, leading to a sharp rise in passenger fares, according to research." About £2.5 billion more each year. That was from 1994, at the same time as the British Channel Crossing opened.
    Red Pepper, more than ten years ago published a report:
    "Our experience in Italy illustrates one of several problems with privatisation and liberalisation that are common throughout Europe: the end of a state monopoly has not translated into the realisation of a competitive market. Instead it has produced private oligarchies and massive profits for private companies, with very little going to public authorities, which continue to face dire problems of underfunding and debt. Financial institutions have been the main beneficiaries of the privatisation of infrastructure in Europe."
    Although the EU have issued policies for all Rail Networks to be privatised, most of Europe's railways are nationalised. Finally, the Mirror in 2017 published a report:

    "British taxpayers are paying for nationalised rail services in Europe, and the French, Dutch and German people would like to say thank you."

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