Major police incident

[Steed]

Some piece of human garbage has murdered a young mother, clearly targetted, there are no extenuating circumstances, there may well be mental, drug or drink issues, none of these are excuses.

100% correct, which is why I was trying to draw the thinking behind “said’s” earlier post.

If someone can do that to another human being, be it hatred, mental health issues, terror related, drug or alcohol fuelled, as far as I am concerned they have no right to share this world with the rest of us.

There can be NO extenuating circumstances.

[said]

100% correct, which is why I was trying to draw the thinking behind “said’s” earlier post.

If someone can do that to another human being, be it hatred, mental health issues, terror related, drug or alcohol fuelled, as far as I am concerned they have no right to share this world with the rest of us.

There can be NO extenuating circumstances.

I disagree! That is why other European states, and the UK have additional charges which can be brought in the case of murder.

[said]

100% correct, which is why I was trying to draw the thinking behind “said’s” earlier post.

If someone can do that to another human being, be it hatred, mental health issues, terror related, drug or alcohol fuelled, as far as I am concerned they have no right to share this world with the rest of us.

There can be NO extenuating circumstances.

The latest update is that Andrew Burke of St. Helens has been charged with the murder. It appears that there was a 'love triangle' where his ex- fiancee, Laura Williams, had left him for Cassandra Heyes, and had stopped him from seeing his own daughter. It does not excuse the act of murder, but it could lead to someone acting out of character.

[Steed]

The latest update is that Andrew Burke of St. Helens has been charged with the murder. It appears that there was a 'love triangle' where his ex- fiancee, Laura Williams, had left him for Cassandra Heyes, and had stopped him from seeing his own daughter. It does not excuse the act of murder, but it could lead to someone acting out of character.

we’ve all experienced unrequited love at some time in our lives, we’ve all suffered rejection and lost loved ones so I’m not too sure what your reasoning is. It’s certainly no defence to what he’s done.

[said]

we’ve all experienced unrequited love at some time in our lives, we’ve all suffered rejection and lost loved ones so I’m not too sure what your reasoning is. It’s certainly no defence to what he’s done.

It is not just rejection, it appears the guy can deal with that, as the break up with his fiancee occurred about a year ago. The guy admits publicly that he is difficult to live with, he knows he suffers periods of deep depression and he has apologised to his acquaintances for his anger issues. It is the fact that his ex-fiancee stopped him from seeing his own daughter that has sent him over the edge. Most people would have been very angry - but for someone who cannot help himself, this was fatal. His actions do not excuse murder - but they do indicate that he acted without being in full control of what he was doing. That is why there are additional laws in France and the US to deal with such matters.

There are many such people in prison today, who really should not be there. An earlier case that appeared in the Visitor, revealed that the perpetrator of the crime suffered from severe depression in a similar form as A.Burke. Other people have been unable to live with it -
suicide is now the largest killer in the UK. The public fail to recognise sufferers because these people do not want it known that they are less than perfect and they go all out to hide it. Unfortunately, although there has been much publicity recently, for help for mental disabilities, this is not available at present. It is the treatment of the symptoms that is needed not punishment of the aftermath!

[roughjustice]

well intended and well 'pitched' as your arguement seems.You have summed up the root of so many of societys problems...
There comes a time to understand a little less and condemn a little more..

Too many people are doing the flag waving, card carrying liberal 'its good to forgive' understanding bulls**t..

Sometimes things ARE what they seam..
Sometimes things are inexcusable.
Sometimes it doesnt matter what caused something, its just necessary to deal with it 'robustly'..
Jeez, how long before the wishy washys of this world try to convince us Hitler was ok but his mummy didnt cuddle him enough...
Or Brady was just depressed because he didnt have kids of his own..

I am well trained in mental health issues and know where you are coming from...but I think the line needs drawing ...

Society is judged by what it deems acceptable. People should be judged by what it takes to resort to violence.

My Ex tried to use my kids as a weopen and refuse access, so I dealt with it by the proper means...I didn't aven consider cutting her throat...
If you have so little self control you deserve whatever you get..

[Toodles McGinty]

It is not just rejection, it appears the guy can deal with that, as the break up with his fiancee occurred about a year ago. The guy admits publicly that he is difficult to live with, he knows he suffers periods of deep depression and he has apologised to his acquaintances for his anger issues. It is the fact that his ex-fiancee stopped him from seeing his own daughter that has sent him over the edge. Most people would have been very angry - but for someone who cannot help himself, this was fatal. His actions do not excuse murder - but they do indicate that he acted without being in full control of what he was doing. That is why there are additional laws in France and the US to deal with such matters.

There are many such people in prison today, who really should not be there. An earlier case that appeared in the Visitor, revealed that the perpetrator of the crime suffered from severe depression in a similar form as A.Burke. Other people have been unable to live with it -
suicide is now the largest killer in the UK. The public fail to recognise sufferers because these people do not want it known that they are less than perfect and they go all out to hide it. Unfortunately, although there has been much publicity recently, for help for mental disabilities, this is not available at present. It is the treatment of the symptoms that is needed not punishment of the aftermath!

Utter bull. This piece of crap is a murderer, pure and simple. No 'boo hoo, he was depressed', he's a murderer. No excuses. He should rot in hell.

If he was that depressed, why didn't the **** slash his own throat? Save the state a packet. He's 'apologised for his anger issues', but couldn't see why his ex didn't want his daughter anywhere near him? Why not take the appropriate legal action to gain access to his kid? Maybe because he's a violent thug whom the legal system wouldn't allow him access to his own child? Because he's got a history of violence that you wouldn't want a child near?

I've seen this several times before. 'Depression' will be his defence, but I'll wager he's a nasty little **** whose supermassive macho ego was just too frail to handle the fact that someone left him for a woman So he murdered a small woman. He deserves to rot in hell. No excuses.

And as far as 'There are many such people in prison today, who really should not be there' is concerned: again, utter bull. People who are violent should not be walking freely in society. My politics are very left wing, but I will not accept that society should give violent thugs a big hug and 'understanding'. Lock them up. Why should we, the public who on the whole abhor such brutality, have sub-human crap walking amongst us? This isn't some poor sod suffering silently with a mental illness. Or considering suicide. It's a murderer who was wholly aware of what he was doing. A coward. A murderer.

[salus.populi]

It is not just rejection, it appears the guy can deal with that, as the break up with his fiancee occurred about a year ago. The guy admits publicly that he is difficult to live with, he knows he suffers periods of deep depression and he has apologised to his acquaintances for his anger issues. It is the fact that his ex-fiancee stopped him from seeing his own daughter that has sent him over the edge. Most people would have been very angry - but for someone who cannot help himself, this was fatal. His actions do not excuse murder - but they do indicate that he acted without being in full control of what he was doing. That is why there are additional laws in France and the US to deal with such matters.

There are many such people in prison today, who really should not be there. An earlier case that appeared in the Visitor, revealed that the perpetrator of the crime suffered from severe depression in a similar form as A.Burke. Other people have been unable to live with it -
suicide is now the largest killer in the UK. The public fail to recognise sufferers because these people do not want it known that they are less than perfect and they go all out to hide it. Unfortunately, although there has been much publicity recently, for help for mental disabilities, this is not available at present. It is the treatment of the symptoms that is needed not punishment of the aftermath!

How's your defence of Andrew Burke going on his Facebook page Marvin?

[Normal]

Assuming (always dangerous assuming) that the victim prevented access to the children, then thank goodness she did. If the alleged criminal is capable of these types of crimes I shudder to think what he would be capable of with children and their occasional difficult ways. Especially if it coincides with what is alleged to be a downturn in his mental health.

There is no justification for murder.

[said]

How's your defence of Andrew Burke going on his Facebook page Marvin?

Ha!Ha! That is an uphill slog! Faced with modern snowflakes who must have had their brain strapped up when young to stop it growing. Gee! All I can say is it is a damn good job that lynch mobs were outlawed, because the young today have regressed in time. What was it someone said " You cannot argue against ignorance"

[said]

well intended and well 'pitched' as your arguement seems.You have summed up the root of so many of societys problems...
There comes a time to understand a little less and condemn a little more..

Too many people are doing the flag waving, card carrying liberal 'its good to forgive' understanding bulls**t..

Sometimes things ARE what they seam..
Sometimes things are inexcusable.
Sometimes it doesnt matter what caused something, its just necessary to deal with it 'robustly'..
Jeez, how long before the wishy washys of this world try to convince us Hitler was ok but his mummy didnt cuddle him enough...
Or Brady was just depressed because he didnt have kids of his own..

I am well trained in mental health issues and know where you are coming from...but I think the line needs drawing ...

Society is judged by what it deems acceptable. People should be judged by what it takes to resort to violence.

My Ex tried to use my kids as a weopen and refuse access, so I dealt with it by the proper means...I didn't aven consider cutting her throat...
If you have so little self control you deserve whatever you get..

I appreciate your views. You say you are well trained in mental health issues - but to what extent? Have you had any close experience with any of those who have killed? Or committed other serious crimes? Do you recall the Mental Health Institutes where mental people could receive treatment and which are absent now? Yes, people should be judged, that is the whole reason for the Legal System - but do you not think that there is a world of difference between serial killers who enjoy killing for the sake of it, and those who act under diminished responsibility? Is the legal system of both France and the US flawed inasmuch as they also have a category of killing "Crime of Passion"? A year ago the partner of Mr. Burke told him that she was separating from him. He faced up to that and continued seeing his daughter. His partner then moved in with another woman and told him that he could not see his own child. He tried several times to see his daughter and his ex partner had him charged with harassment. He was due to face charges tomorrow on that issue. He was with his partner for almost six years - if he had been violent in that time - would she have stayed with him and allowed the child to be at risk? He would feel that the authorities are siding with his partner so he cannot seek help from them. It would not take much for a sane man to become frustrated let alone someone of low self esteem, prone to depression. I am most certainly not a liberalist in any way, I am not saying that the man should not be punished - but it is for the legal system to analyse the situation and deal with it as they may, taking everything into consideration. The public should not be baying for blood unless they know all there is to know about the issue. The man himself has a family - is it fair to them? They are totally innocent too!

[Toodles McGinty]

I appreciate your views. You say you are well trained in mental health issues - but to what extent? Have you had any close experience with any of those who have killed? Or committed other serious crimes? Do you recall the Mental Health Institutes where mental people could receive treatment and which are absent now? Yes, people should be judged, that is the whole reason for the Legal System - but do you not think that there is a world of difference between serial killers who enjoy killing for the sake of it, and those who act under diminished responsibility? Is the legal system of both France and the US flawed inasmuch as they also have a category of killing "Crime of Passion"? A year ago the partner of Mr. Burke told him that she was separating from him. He faced up to that and continued seeing his daughter. His partner then moved in with another woman and told him that he could not see his own child. He tried several times to see his daughter and his ex partner had him charged with harassment. He was due to face charges tomorrow on that issue. He was with his partner for almost six years - if he had been violent in that time - would she have stayed with him and allowed the child to be at risk? He would feel that the authorities are siding with his partner so he cannot seek help from them. It would not take much for a sane man to become frustrated let alone someone of low self esteem, prone to depression. I am most certainly not a liberalist in any way, I am not saying that the man should not be punished - but it is for the legal system to analyse the situation and deal with it as they may, taking everything into consideration. The public should not be baying for blood unless they know all there is to know about the issue. The man himself has a family - is it fair to them? They are totally innocent too!

Obviously either a mate of yours, or your partner has left you for another woman. Ego just can't take it?

Whilst you are being a murdering cowards biggest apologist, consider why did he slaughter an innocent woman? By all accounts a slight woman who couldn't fight back? Why didn't he attack the authorities who it seems were absolutely correct in 'siding' with his ex? Why didn't he attack his ex, who was keeping her innocent daughter from a self-admitted violent man?

Because it is complete bull crap. His tiny dicked macho fat **** ego couldn't take the fact his ex didn't want him any more. And doubly inflamed by the fact she was with a woman. So the snivelling little pile of crap slaughtered an innocent woman.

Were you one of his thick mates that taunted him that he'd turned his missus gay? Did you joke he wasn't man enough to keep her, so now you defend him?

So he is innocent because of 'depression', poor little lamb couldn't see his kid? His poor family get your sympathy? But no word of sorrow or sympathy for the innocent woman butchered at work?

I hope no moron is standing up for someone who has murdered one of your family one day. But, then again, you'd understand, wouldn't you?

[said]

Obviously either a mate of yours, or your partner has left you for another woman. Ego just can't take it?

Whilst you are being a murdering cowards biggest apologist, consider why did he slaughter an innocent woman? By all accounts a slight woman who couldn't fight back? Why didn't he attack the authorities who it seems were absolutely correct in 'siding' with his ex? Why didn't he attack his ex, who was keeping her innocent daughter from a self-admitted violent man?

Because it is complete bull crap. His tiny dicked macho fat **** ego couldn't take the fact his ex didn't want him any more. And doubly inflamed by the fact she was with a woman. So the snivelling little pile of crap slaughtered an innocent woman.

Were you one of his thick mates that taunted him that he'd turned his missus gay? Did you joke he wasn't man enough to keep her, so now you defend him?

So he is innocent because of 'depression', poor little lamb couldn't see his kid? His poor family get your sympathy? But no word of sorrow or sympathy for the innocent woman butchered at work?

I hope no moron is standing up for someone who has murdered one of your family one day. But, then again, you'd understand, wouldn't you?

Believe you me - I am really aware! I have been at the aftermath of four killings and two attempted killings and have seen more violence than most non service personnel. Perhaps that is why I am passionate that more should be done for mental issues.

[jamyramy]

non are aware or privy to minuti of those tradgic events that have led up to this most tradgic of incidents .but the words walk a mile in anothers shoes before you judge spring to mind! we live now in a mostempty yet selfish society devoid of any empathy care or social responsibility for our fellows or our actions fallout.all yet moan and rant at the decline ,yet at the same time embrace its decline in passive acceptance,whilst doing nothing in ones own behaviours to counter its influence.maybe its events like these that are the wake up call to all ,that the state of our current societies demise has to stop and a revaluation of values and behaviours has to take place ,for all are a part of the society we create and allow.!

[VB123]

I am not supporting the murderer of a young woman and being denied access to your child is no defence at all to taking a person’s life, but I do have to respond to some of the comments on here with regard to those suffering severe mental health issues. I have experience of dealing with suffers of psychosis, particularly paranoid schizophrenia, and these individuals are far from responsible for their actions. It can happen to absolutely anyone. I am sure you have all had nightmares and woken feeling relieved that it wasn’t real - well can you imagine having these thoughts and not being able to escape them? It must be absolutely terrifying thinking people are constantly following you and trying to kill you. And yes, they do try to take their own lives or succeed in doing so. It is so extremely distressing to see people, who were just as normal mentally as the rest of us, have no control whatsoever of the bizarre thoughts in their mind and think people are speaking to them telepathically. So please do not discuss those with severe mental health issues in a derogatory way if you have no experience of it. You could be in a car accident and suffer a brain injury, experience a major traumatic event or use recreational drugs thinking they are ok and end up with psychosis - it really can happen to anyone. Thankfully, medication can help to correct the chemical imbalance to support their recovery. It is only when you see it first hand that you can really appreciate the devastation it causes.