Jon Venables

[Hamble]

Quote said
"No I disagree with you. Psychopaths are born that way.
Often they will give reasons such as being ill treated by parents etc., but this has been discredited since several young people have been ill treated by parents but only rarely do these turn to psychopathic behaviour."

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This could be explained in many ways other than the assumption that
a child is born a psychopath.

The Nature and nurture affect on personality traits works both ways?

[myrtle]

FAOD Both crimes I refer to are heinous crimes for which there should be appropriate punishment and without release unless it is in the public interest to do so.

I'm not a psychiatrist and nor are you, and the only things that either us really know about the crime, the legal process and their sentences and subsequent supervision is what we have gleaned from (mostly) tabloid newspapers.

Nobody is born evil, they are made that way by their environment. A ten year old child who has been given no concept of right or wrong and who society has failed because it didn't step in to their terrible homelife surely has the right to expect society to try to undo the wrongs.

By saying that the 10 year oid Thompson and Venables should be treated in the same way as the 30 something Hindley/Brady.

To drag up a cause celebre of the right, I would guess that you would describe a 30 year old woman who consented to sleep with dozens of Pakistani men in Rotherham after a few wines to be a slut and a lush. By your logic, the same should have applied to a (physically) sexually mature 14 year old.

Children and adults are different things.

The horrific torture that little James Bulger was subjected to was unbelievably horrendous and my information was not gleaned from the media.

[carliol]

Well here is a point to discuss, if they were born evil, then how is it their fault. Some people are born with impaired physical conditions.These two were also unfortunate to have a home situation in which they were neglected and possibly abused; this alone does not excuse their act, as Albion says.

It is possible to understand but also to condemn. I quote Albion again 'Saying that the 10 year old Thompson and Venables should be treated in the same way as the 30 something Hindley/Brady is wrong.'

Words such as detritus etc have no place in a civilised discussion and comments about the death penalty are irrelevant; they were ten years old. If one of them has now turned his life around, surely rehabilitation is a desirable outcome.

[said]

Quote said
"No I disagree with you. Psychopaths are born that way.
Often they will give reasons such as being ill treated by parents etc., but this has been discredited since several young people have been ill treated by parents but only rarely do these turn to psychopathic behaviour."

---------


This could be explained in many ways other than the assumption that
a child is born a psychopath.

The Nature and nurture affect on personality traits works both ways?

It is not an assumption. I have worked with children of all ages, for a huge number of years. I have seen various forms of behaviour and spent time in analysing the reasons for it. There was a child murdered in Litherland some years ago by other children - the circumstances although horrendous, were completely different. No two people will ever have identical traits. No books nor research will ever cover the entire human characteristic traits, however there are proven similarities in certain human behaviour.

[Hamble]

It is not an assumption. I have worked with children of all ages, for a huge number of years. I have seen various forms of behaviour and spent time in analysing the reasons for it. There was a child murdered in Litherland some years ago by other children - the circumstances although horrendous, were completely different. No two people will ever have identical traits. No books nor research will ever cover the entire human characteristic traits, however there are proven similarities in certain human behaviour.

Logically psychopathic behaviour has to be learnt since a baby cannot
perform 'deviant' behaviour.

I forgot to mention earlier-the parents may or may not be part of a child's deviant behaviour it could be the influence of siblings or step children or other family members.
Certainly neglect and mental abuse damage a child's behaviour.

Some children react outwardly others inwardly self harming or with abuse of substance.

I too have read the sexual details of James Bulger's murder which are now widely available to anyone interested.
The details of the sexual abuse are shocking on a child by a child viewed in isolation of the case but not as so if one is used to reading such behavior.

Many child on child murders with sexual motives do not reach the national press significantly due to the quick arrest and age of the perpetrator.

It does not change the fact the kidnap and murder of James Bulger was a horrific and shocking a crime.
I just feel ignoring the fact the murderers were damaged out of control children does nothing to prevent another tragedy.

Luckily this victims survived.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-case-brothers

[said]

Logically psychopathic behaviour has to be learnt since a baby cannot
perform 'deviant' behaviour.

I forgot to mention earlier-the parents may or may not be part of a child's deviant behaviour it could be the influence of siblings or step children or other family members.
Certainly neglect and mental abuse damage a child's behaviour.

Some children react outwardly others inwardly self harming or with abuse of substance.

I too have read the sexual details of James Bulger's murder which are now widely available to anyone interested.
The details of the sexual abuse are shocking on a child by a child viewed in isolation of the case but not as so if one is used to reading such behavior.

Many child on child murders with sexual motives do not reach the national press significantly due to the quick arrest and age of the perpetrator.

It does not change the fact the kidnap and murder of James Bulger was a horrific and shocking a crime.
I just feel ignoring the fact the murderers were damaged out of control children does nothing to prevent another tragedy.

Luckily this victims survived.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-case-brothers

True! Babies do not exhibit such behaviour - but mental deficiencies are hereditary and can and are passed down through generations.

[Hamble]

True! Babies do not exhibit such behaviour - but mental deficiencies are hereditary and can and are passed down through generations.

As I understand it a genetic predisposition to psychosis is equally influenced by nurture.

Foetal Alcohol Syndrome is not hereditary though it does cause delinquency and problems with understanding cause and effect.