I'm too smart

[said]

How many people have said that they know all the scams and that it won't happen to them?

A guy in London, suddenly receives a fine for not paying the Dartford Tunnel toll fee. He refuses to pay and an additional payment is levied on it. He is not paying it because he was nowhere near the Dartford Tunnel and had not been for many months. The interpretation of the camera image on his number plate had meant that the vehicle was mis-identified, and it took him almost two years to clear the issue with London Transport, and even then it was not until a national newspaper had taken the matter up on his behalf.

Or, how about an overseas visitor who hired a car while in the UK. Inadvertently she found herself on the Dartford Toll road late at night. She had no computer with her, and it was not until the next day that she managed to pay the toll fee. No worries - first offenders are allowed so many days to pay anyway, so she thought no more about it. Until she received a huge bill from the hire company for administration fees for dealing with the Dartford fine. It appeared that a fine was issued because London Transport said she was not a first offender - that the same car had been registered the month before, going on that road without paying the toll immediately. The lady argued that she was not even in the country then and that it must have been the previous driver who had done the same as she had. Again, it took many months and media intervention before she was cleared.

So, are you really aware of everything you can be scammed with?

[justbecause]

How many people have said that they know all the scams and that it won't happen to them?

A guy in London, suddenly receives a fine for not paying the Dartford Tunnel toll fee. He refuses to pay and an additional payment is levied on it. He is not paying it because he was nowhere near the Dartford Tunnel and had not been for many months. The interpretation of the camera image on his number plate had meant that the vehicle was mis-identified, and it took him almost two years to clear the issue with London Transport, and even then it was not until a national newspaper had taken the matter up on his behalf.

Or, how about an overseas visitor who hired a car while in the UK. Inadvertently she found herself on the Dartford Toll road late at night. She had no computer with her, and it was not until the next day that she managed to pay the toll fee. No worries - first offenders are allowed so many days to pay anyway, so she thought no more about it. Until she received a huge bill from the hire company for administration fees for dealing with the Dartford fine. It appeared that a fine was issued because London Transport said she was not a first offender - that the same car had been registered the month before, going on that road without paying the toll immediately. The lady argued that she was not even in the country then and that it must have been the previous driver who had done the same as she had. Again, it took many months and media intervention before she was cleared.

So, are you really aware of everything you can be scammed with?

I don’t understand this as the Dartford bridge and tunnels are free to use between 22:00 and 06:00.

[ausard2]

What does this have to do with you? Please.
Then you have information that is absolutely factual and you
know to be true.

[justbecause]

what does this have to do with you? Please.
Then you have information that is absolutely factual and you
know to be true.

what?

[Toodles McGinty]

I wouldn't say either were 'scams'. Misunderstandings or mistakes, but not what I would call a 'scam'.

[rolling-thunder]

Back in the days of Blockbusters I received a charge notice for none returned video tape from somewhere near London. Upon checking the date I was supposed to have taken the Tape out I asked for proof that it was me. I pointed out I lived in Southport so it's highly unlikely i'd drive 200 miles to scam a shop out of a tape. Still no joy the charge stood and the only proof they had was my address and name. Good luck with that one as I was in Rochester at the time. I was asked if I had proof. I replied more proof than they had , I had 600+ members of my re-enactment society, film and photographic footage that I was there & on top of that I didn't drive {at the time}. The nearest I came to the shop was 30 miles as I passed on the M1. Case closed. No doubts the shop was scammed but not by me.

[seivad]

Or, how about an overseas visitor who hired a car while in the UK. Inadvertently she found herself on the Dartford Toll road late at night. She had no computer with her, and it was not until the next day that she managed to pay the toll fee. No worries - first offenders are allowed so many days to pay anyway, so she thought no more about it. Until she received a huge bill from the hire company for administration fees for dealing with the Dartford fine. It appeared that a fine was issued because London Transport said she was not a first offender - that the same car had been registered the month before, going on that road without paying the toll immediately. The lady argued that she was not even in the country then and that it must have been the previous driver who had done the same as she had. Again, it took many months and media intervention before she was cleared.

If she paid within the specified time. i.e. before midnight the day after the crossing, it wouldn't even have triggered a Dart fine.

[said]

I wouldn't say either were 'scams'. Misunderstandings or mistakes, but not what I would call a 'scam'.

Misunderstandings?? There are hundreds of complaints, going back a number of years. A large number of people have just paid the fines even when they have not needed to while those taking the issues through the courts have been 80% successful. The Dartford Toll was supposed to have been ended in 2003, but it nets £billions for the government. While the subject is Dartford Toll Road - it could happen on a number of toll roads.

[said]

If she paid within the specified time. i.e. before midnight the day after the crossing, it wouldn't even have triggered a Dart fine.

No - that applies to first offenders. If that number plate has been registered as a previous late payer, the second time the driver gets fined for not paying the toll fee before the journey. That is why there is an anomaly with car hire. If a previous driver in the same car is noted as being a late payer, then the next unsuspecting driver caught will be fined if using the same car.

[said]

[QUOTE=rolling-thunder;6648956]Back in the days of Blockbusters I

Good for you. Stand your ground!

[gsgsgs]

How are either scenarios scams?

Scenario 1 - The interpretation of the camera image on his number plate had meant that the vehicle was mis-identified see them in court as the vehicle was misidentified, so why would you pay a fine?

Scenario 2 - a car hire firm would have full details of who has hired a car and when, they'd see that the charge relates to a previous hirer and wouldn't peruse the lady in your scenario, if they did again you the in court.

In both cases neither party paid a fine and anybody with any sense wouldn't blindly pay a fine they didn't think was theirs.

[seivad]

No - that applies to first offenders.If that number plate has been registered as a previous late payer, the second time the driver gets fined for not paying the toll fee before the journey.

Do you have proof of this from the governmental website? I can find nothing to substantiate your claim.

That is why there is an anomaly with car hire. If a previous driver in the same car is noted as being a late payer, then the next unsuspecting driver caught will be fined if using the same car.

The car hire company is the registered keeper of the car, not the driver. Some car hire companies pay the charges/fines direct to Dartford Crossing, then bill their customer. Others give the name & address of the driver on that date/time to the Dartford Crossing, hence the car hire company's admin. charge to the customer. Either way, the driver does not get charged for a previous driver's infraction.

EDIT: So you're not so smart after all!

[said]

"Some in leased or rented cars have been fined, even though they have paid the fee, because Dart Charge’s system has misapplied their payment to a previous customer. Shirley Palframan, who lives in Brunei, found £150 had been deducted from her account by car rental company Easirent for a crossing made before she visited the UK."“I paid for my crossings, but the payments were used to pay for crossings made the week before I hired the car. This meant my journeys were showing as unpaid, resulting in penalty charge notices and additional administration fees from the hire company,” she says. Guardian

"Laura Townshend of Basildon, Essex, also received a fine for a crossing she never made, last July. In her case she had sold the vehicle in question. She says she sent Highways England the official paperwork proving she was not the registered keeper at the time of the offence. The only response, two months later, was a threat of court proceedings unless she paid £105 plus the £2.50 toll." Guardian

"Get an extra 14 days to pay: Nearly 3.5million motorists have failed to pay the Dartford Crossing toll since the new system was introduced, however, first-time ‘offenders’ will be given a 14-day grace period when the charge notice is sent out. This allows them to pay the original charge rather than the full fine." Trip Adviser
Motorists using the Dartford Crossing since the system changed have complained about poor signage and a lack of information on how to pay. Many drivers have also complained the system is heavily biased towards those with online access. Airport Parking and Hotels.
"“Payments for these vehicles are still being put against previous unpaid crossings made by other customers, due to the fact that, unlike the London congestion charge website, Dart Charge don’t have a facility to specify what date you are paying for,” says director Deborah Lashmar, who wrote to us to vent her frustration." Chelmsford Van Hire.

[said]

How are either scenarios scams?

Scenario 1 - The interpretation of the camera image on his number plate had meant that the vehicle was mis-identified see them in court as the vehicle was misidentified, so why would you pay a fine?

Scenario 2 - a car hire firm would have full details of who has hired a car and when, they'd see that the charge relates to a previous hirer and wouldn't peruse the lady in your scenario, if they did again you the in court.

In both cases neither party paid a fine and anybody with any sense wouldn't blindly pay a fine they didn't think was theirs.

It took almost two years before the guy managed to get the fine quashed. Possibly because his situation did not appear in their Rule Book and they would not accept his word.

In the second case, the problem arises because their is a grace period before a FIRST OFFENDER is fined. The driver in each case was a FIRST OFFENDER but the car was registered as a repeat offence.

[justbecause]

When the QE2 bridge was first built, we were told that charges would be levied until the bridge was paid for. Back in around 2001 when I owned a transport company that used the bridge and tunnels on a daily basis, I received a communication, signed by Gordon Brown, advising that the bridge would shortly be paid for, but, he had decided the tolls would remain, not for the £billions they raise each year, but because having toll booths at the bridge/tunnels would “help to ease congestion on the M25”.
Obviously anyone with the slightest degree of intelligence realised that this one of the many, many lies that Gordon Brown told us he was Chancellor.
It does beg the question though, that if this was true, why did they scrap the booths system, and secondly, now having scrapped the booths system, why does the Government continue to charge us.